RADIO CALL —
TAPES #540 THROUGH #542 EXCERPTS
Q: Mark Russell Bell
P: Phillip Clarke, host of “Coast To Coast AM” radio show
T: Tom Shroder, author of Old Souls: The Scientific Evidence for Past Lives
S: “Coast To Coast AM” engineer
G: George, caller from San Diego
J: Jeff, caller from Boston
H: John, caller from Charleston
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I RECORDED THE BROADCAST OF “COAST TO COAST AM” AUGUST 13/14, 1999 HOSTED BY PHILLIP CLARKE WITH INTERVIEW GUEST MICHAEL J. MAZARR, AUTHOR OF GLOBAL TRENDS 2005: AN OWNER’S MANUAL FOR THE NEXT DECADE DURING THE FIRST HOUR OF THE SHOW; FOLLOWED BY FOUR HOURS WITH GUEST TOM SHRODER, AUTHOR OF OLD SOULS: THE SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE FOR PAST LIVES. MY JOURNAL ENTRIES AND TRANSCRIPT OF MY PARTICIPATION FOLLOW.)
Q: Well I want to call tonight. I guess Phillip forgot the commercials so he’ll have to have double (this half hour) — as if there weren’t horrendously many already. So I guess I’ll tape the next half hour too. I don’t know if I’ll get on now or later. His other guest is Tom Shroder who has a book about reincarnation so you have an author selling a book about materialistic global trends and then you have a guest about reincarnation. I’m a little nervous. Take deep breaths. He seems like a nice man.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: DUE TO PREVIOUS EXPERIENCES, WHEN PHILLIP SAID “NOW” I THOUGHT IT COULD POSSIBLY BE A CHANNELED MESSAGE FOR ME TO CALL NOW. I PLANNED TO USE ONE TAPE RECORDER TO RECORD THE BROADCAST AND ANOTHER TO RECORD MY TELEPHONE CALL YET WHEN I HURRIEDLY BEGAN CALLING I COULDN’T HEAR ANYTHING COMING THROUGH THE EAR PHONES AND THOUGHT THE LISTENING DEVICE WASN’T WORKING ON THE BACK-UP RECORDER.)
Q: So then I switched to the other tape, hoping to use the functioning tape recorder. Oh it needs batteries too, I guess. I’m confused. I’m devastated. I was sure I was going to get on. Maybe this is proof that Mighael doesn’t love me any more. I guess that’s a question I have about — just how much is Mighael in control because some pretty terrible things happen. Obviously, God wouldn’t want terrible things to happen. I mean it seems to me that Mighael is the Angel that is the channel of thoughts and creativity between ourselves and God. Anyway, people wouldn’t get that though if I said it over the — they would think that was just too ludicrous. They have to be prepared. (“ME”) ‘So what if the Angel Michael is the Holy Ghost or Christ or Krishna or the —’ (“I”) in my introduction to New Testament, of course, it has very valid points about all that in the “Jesus: Second Coming” and “Oneness Of All Force” paragraphs.
Q: By the way, while those Art Bell commercials ring endlessly on, I was just thinking about Hitchcock. He made a big mistake in his interview with Mervin Griffin, talking about how the perfect crime is committed all the time because it’s something that people “get away with” so you never know about it but, of course, since we’re all linked to God through our shared subconscious mind there’s really no way of getting away with anything. Something to think about when you consider doing something really bad. Hell can be instantaneous. I think Art knows all about that. Once you’re not working with Spirit, once you do something — maybe — I don’t know. I can’t really judge. No one can really judge. In fact, that’s something else I’m willing to talk about on the air. Who knows? He might really think I am the Antichrist. I mean I have made mistakes. Anyway, I don’t really mean (“THIS”) to be a journal. This is supposed to be a taped radio segment so —
[2021 UPDATE: REGARDING 'MISTAKES' AS MENTIONED IN MY "2021 INTRODUCTION": Throughout the texts of my experiences and conversation the reader should always consider the event described and, separately, my choice of words to spontaneously express myself at each particular moment. My incessant spoken reflection was a way to keep a record of events via tape recorder with 'audio journal' and interview transcripts. Usually, like many writers, I’m very quiet and an introvert yet to analyze and talk about the manifold wonderful things chronicled in Testament I usually affected a bantering persona. There was the influence of my nondenominational Christian background in regard to the immediate conjectures made involving the nature of God and morality.]
Q: Well I was trying to dial in on the wild card line and I got through like five times in a row. I thought for sure I was going to get on the air. I was all ready. I was going to say, “Good evening, Phillip. Michael’s done a wonderful job of presenting the materialistic side of the problems of the world as we approach the new millennium but what about the spiritual aspects? It seems that Y2K and all of these events are being spiritually orchestrated in some ways through our shared subconscious. Of course, today is the historic date on the Aztec calendar and when you really think about it we are very much like the Aztecs. The civilization is flourishing again. There’s a lot in common. Anyone who tells the truth ends up as a sacrifice or victim in our day and age much like during the Aztecs’ time.” Anyway, I was hoping to segue into my being ostracized by others exploiting the corrupt social order — being an author who’s the victim of a media cover-up myself. God knows what I would’ve said? My notes sort of — I have notes in front of me so I might have referred to my Hitchcock ancestry. I’ve discovered people really aren’t comfortable with the subject of angelic or divine communication/reincarnation when it isn’t presented in a sentimental or heart-warming way. And in this case there is physical evidence. I was hoping to say, “I made the case study available free of charge on the Internet at testament.org” and maybe mention Art’s cover-up — anyway, maybe this is practice for later. Maybe I’ll get through on the next hour. My other — I have another tape recorder that isn’t working for some reason. The listening device. (sighs) I wonder what all this means.
Q: By the way, my (back-up) tape recorder is working. Just the volume was turned down very, very low. That’s why I didn’t think it was working.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: IT WAS AFTER MIDNIGHT WHEN PHILLIP MENTIONED THEY WERE GOING TO BEGIN ACCEPTING QUESTIONS FROM CALLERS. SINCE MY CALLS WENT UNANSWERED ON THE WILD CARD LINE EARLIER, I DIALED IN ON THE WESTERN U.S. LINE AND RECEIVED A BUSY SIGNAL. I REDIALED ON THE FIRST TIME CALLER LINE.)
(telephone ringing)
P: . . . were (BEEP) terribly brave to go to Beirut even though there is a certain amount of peace reigning, it’s still a dicey situation at the moment until they can get a grip on —
T: Yeah, I remember when I first was arranging to go there and I got on the Internet and checked the State Department page and they have this very frightening warning saying —
(TRANSCRIBER’S MESSAGE: THE TAPE RECORDED FROM THE BROADCAST IS LOUDER AND CLEARER. IN IT TOM CAN BE HEARD SAYING ‘NO’ BETWEEN ‘WARNING’ AND ‘SAYING.’ THERE WERE MANY INSTANCES OF THIS DURING THE BROADCAST AND MANY SOUND LIKE SPIRIT MESSAGES.)
S: “Coast To Coast AM” with Art Bell. What’s — actually Phillip Clarke filling in for Art Bell. What’s your first name?
Q: Mark.
S: Mark. And where are you calling from, Mark?
Q: I’m calling from the San Fernando Valley.
S: (O)kay. And you’re listening on KABC?
Q: Yes.
S: (O)kay. And what’s your question?
Q: My question has to deal with synchronicity and reincarnation in terms of people learning about past lives through indications other than memory or hypnosis.
S: Oh okay. Terrific question. I’m going to put you on hold. Make sure your radio is turned off and you speak up nice and loud for Phillip Clarke.
Q: Okay, it’s off.
S: Okay. Terrific, Mark. I’m putting you on hold.
Q: Okay.
T: It was very . . . moment was very intense because you’re — in India there’s no sort of getting away from it all.
P: Right.
T: You’re constantly bombarded. There’s just an unending sensory bombardment of, no, just the millions and the throngs and the — no, I — the only — the way I sort of got over the culture shock of being in India was I began to say, “Well I’m getting a chance to look at what it might’ve been like to be in Europe during the Middle Ages.” It had that feel. I mean there was on one hand —
P: Yes, of course.
T: — you had — you were surrounded by intense poverty and open sewage and pigs wallowing in the street but on the other hand there was just this endless life going on around you. (“NO”) Both animal and human. (“I”) And it was an incredible stimulating pageant at all times but it was exhausting. And Stephenson, no, who’s eighty years old would run me into the ground on these days. He often didn’t stop for lunch. And every once in a while he’d stop and say, “Well I think our driver might want to get a little something to eat.” No . . .
P: (laughs)
T: How about me?
P: Me too. Right.
T: And — well he’s just remarkable and in remarkable condition. And his — (“NO”) he’s so sharp and so learned, (“YEAH”) so widely read. He was just fascinating to be around.
P: Now I hope that before too much more time passes — perhaps with the help of your book that he’ll get some of the recognition that I think he deserves. Now let’s take some phone calls and see what the people out there have to ask you. So let’s go, first of all, to George in San Diego. Hello, George. How are you?
G: Good evening, Phillip and good evening, Tom. I wanted to offer some anecdotal evidence for Tom’s argument. It’s sort of second-hand hearsay but it’s from my mother about me. And I’m informed that when I was just a lad of maybe three or four I used to tell stories about having been in the British Royal Navy in the American Revolution and I seemed to know all sorts of things about sailing ships and the American Revolutionary War that I should not have otherwise known.
T: Oh that’s very interesting. It’s not typical of the kind of cases we were seeing because surprisingly all the children in the cases that we saw remembered lives in the immediate previous generation. I think the (“THE”) biggest — the biggest lapse between the death of the individual remembered and the child’s life was about twenty years, which I found rather remarkable. There weren’t — no, in most of the cases that we hear about from regression are things like you’re talking about where it skips several generations and goes back to something like that. But it’s interesting — you don’t remember any of this I take it?
G: No — yeah, again I — no, I seem — I have strange memories from my childhood but no, that does not happen to be one of them but I thought I’d share that because it seems to offer some corroboration to what you’re talking about. And I’m very skeptical about anything that can’t be proven at will under laboratory conditions but this one I don’t have an explanation for.
T: Yeah. Well, no, it’s interesting to — there are many anecdotal things but I think that if it weren’t for situations where the child was saying specific things that could later be corroborated about somebody’s life like, no, the girl who asked about, “Did your uncle give you the jewelry?” or Preidi who talked about, no, the names of her siblings and her parents and the place where she lived and described the house and things like that, that later could be proven to be true, I’d have to say that no matter how interesting what the child said — (“THERE’S”) no, there’s many possibilities. (“NO”) Maybe a child was aware of a movie or a television show or something like that. So in the absence of something that’s really — compels you to say, “Well there’s no way a child could’ve gotten that off the television or off of movies” — no, I would tend to sort of just think, “Well isn’t that interesting but it doesn’t really prove much.”
G: Well —
P: Thank you, George. Now let’s go to another caller. This time from the San Fernando Valley right here in L.A. (BEEP) Mark. Hello?
Q: Hi, Phillip.
P: Hi.
Q: I wanted to ask Tom about accounts of synchronicity and non-memory reincarnation accounts because in my own case Spirit led me to discovering about my former incarnation and I even had material proof. So is this common?
T: Well what are you — is what common? What are you —
Q: Well in my case, there was a small antique store near where I was living at the time. And I went in there and I found a small medallion that had my exact likeness. And, of course, there were many other events too. Like I found a book about this person who I was in a former life and as soon as I got home that night there was a power outage so I ended up reading the book by flashlight. And there was other synchronicity in terms of names. The name of the person who I was in my previous life was very similar to my name in this life. And I just wondered (“FOR”) like non-memory, non-hypnosis cases — I mean what — do you have any accounts (“WHE[RE]”) — there were similar cases where like, let’s say, an angel guides someone to find out about their previous existence?
T: Well I mean I’ve certainly heard of many accounts like that but (or “BUT”), no the (or “NO THE”) — what I was interested in was accounts that were, no, not based on received wisdom. I mean received wisdom would be like ‘an angel told me this.’ And, no (or “NO”), someone might’ve had an experience of an angel telling them something but there’s no way that an outside observer could be persuaded of that unless, no — unless they saw which isn’t the case, isn’t what happened.
P: So this is basically what a very personal experience that is not something that you could really check up.
Q: Well what —
T: Right. And it might be very personally valid to you but it’s not the sort of thing that people could be invited to check for themselves.
(TRANSCRIBER’S MESSAGE: SINCE I TAPED MY PARTICIPATION FROM THE TELEPHONE RECEIVER AND FROM THE BROADCAST WITH THE TAPE DELAY, I WAS ABLE TO COMPARE THE TAPES. AFTER TOM SAID “VALID TO YOU,” I MAY HAVE SAID “YEAH” HEARD ON THE TAPE MADE FROM THE TELEPHONE YET THIS ISN’T HEARD ON THE TAPE MADE FROM THE BROADCAST. MY INTERJECTING “WELL WHAT” IS BARELY AUDIBLE ON THE BROADCAST TAPE.)
Q: Yeah. Well in my case, what I ended up doing — what you had commented earlier about disbelief suppressing real cases really rung a bell with me — is I (or “IS I”) gathered up (“LIKE”) my various evidence and I put it on the Internet because I wasn’t really getting much press cooperation. So I have a website at testament.org and I just put up all the information there so I figure the people who are interested in it can get it free of charge and those who aren’t can just continue ignoring me. (“UM-HUH”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S MESSAGE: THE SPIRIT MESSAGE “UM-HUH” IS ONLY HEARD ON THE TAPE OF THE BROADCAST.)
P: (laughs) Okay, Mark, thank you very much for your call.
Q: (off the air) Okay. Tell Art I said hello.
P: Now let’s go to Jeff in Boston.
J: Okay.
P: Jeff?
J: Yes, I’m calling to tell people how I use lucid dreams to remember past lives and would like to recommend how listeners can do the same thing. And what I do is I fall asleep listening to the radio and hear the radio in my sleep. So I pick a commercial that I hear sometimes and I practiced thinking every time I hear that commercial ‘I will wonder if I’m dreaming.’ And so when I’m asleep hearing the radio and hear that commercial I wonder if I’m dreaming and to test this I stick my thumbs in my ears. If I still hear the commercial I know I’m dreaming because I know I’m not awake really physically sticking my thumbs in my ears, blocking the sound. And so once I know I’m dreaming, my mind becomes my psychic workshop and psychic playground and I do all sorts of research and successfully. I remember more and more of past lives through doing this. And I have a lot of fun in other ways along the way because my mind is my psychic workshop and psychic playground. And this works even better if someone records — a radio on VCR — using a VCR like a regular audio tape recorder because my — fall asleep listening to the VCR, I already heard it when I recorded it so I’m able to ignore it more when I’m hearing it and get to sleep more easily so night after night I hear the same eight-hour recording tape from a radio show on the VCR, having lucid dreams and I would like listeners to do the same thing and I’m wondering who to contact — maybe you or someone else about how to promote this idea more.
P: Well I think you pretty much put it out there. Let’s see if we get any response on it. Thank you very much for your call, Jeff. Now let’s go to John in Charleston, West Virginia.
J: Good morning.
P: Yes.
J: I was wondering if in your studies if you’ve ever heard of a change in gender?
T: Yes. There are some cross-gender cases that Dr. Stephenson has studied. And sometimes these are accompanied by some problems with sexual identity in the child’s current situation — the memories of being a different gender in a previous life is accompanied by, no (or “NO’), either homosexuality or cross-gender identification.
J: Thank you.
P: Mmm. Thank you very much for your call, John. Tom, we’ve got a lot of calls lined up but unfortunately we have to take a break at this point in time and I’m going to get right back to you as soon as we’ve taken our break and done all the things that we have to do. This is Phillip Clarke sitting in for Art Bell on this — well it’s not Friday any more. It’s Saturday here in Los Angeles. But we’ll struggle on through and we’ll go back to our author, Tom Shroder, author of Old Souls: The Scientific Evidence for Past Lives. Reincarnation is what we’re talking about and if you have a thought or a question, by all means give me a call. We’ll be back after these words.
(bumper music is “Words of Love” performed by The Mamas & The Papas)
Q: So I got on, thanks to Mighael. I did call on the first time caller line, which was sort of dishonest but I figure that’s sort of silly. Anyway, I mean Art’s been sort of dishonest about me by not having me on the show — suppression of the truth. So what’s one little bit of dishonesty? I had to get through. Anyway, I can live with that. Anyway, I don’t even know what I’m talking about. There are so many thing going through my mind. I did get the website out, I think, so I’m going to Email my webmaster just to let him know. All those millions of people trying to get on the website at the same time — yeah, right. Maybe a few if I’m lucky. But I’ll let him know in any case. My hopes are always much higher than what usually happens. But, anyway — oh I just — I can’t imagine being in this predicament. I just can’t imagine all the people who aren’t learning about what I have to share for such silly, silly reasons — such primitive reasons. Anyway, I hope my ‘psycho bitch from hell’ days are over. I’m filing with the temp agency on Monday because I don’t have any choice. I wanted to apologize to Art but I didn’t have the chance.
Q: So what do you think of the news coverage? Pretty pathetic. I got some Email from some jerk. It just says, “He says you’re not helping” with no period or anything.
Q: Well I guess I really don’t have to give you my interpretations, explanation or beliefs at this point. So it’s three o’clock on the fourteenth and I’m going to bed.
Q: So it’s Sunday night and I’m listening to “Dreamland” with Whitley Streiber as I work on the Internet, etc. I thought I would download the new website. But it’s getting complicated. Anyway.
( . . . )
Q: So “Dreamland” is now over. For a moment I was thinking that I should call in. Mighael wants me to call in. Whitley was interviewing Bill MacDonald, who I found terribly unforthcoming the last time he was one. He just didn’t make sense. He couldn’t talk about a lot of things. What he did say seemed to have a bias. He just was — just not coherent. So, of course, I could call and I’m not quite sure how I would’ve said it. (“BUT”) I would’ve just raised the point about these people with military backgrounds and how can anyone really trust them because, of course, the military aspect is key to the whole cover-up. My estimation is that for these people at some point in their dealings they do get some feeling that the phenomena is something divine, something of God and, of course, in the minds with all their military backgrounds and the basic opposition with God’s word in terms of ‘Thou Shalt Not Kill’ and — well just all the military sensibility. So — and, of course, these people are very — what’s the word? Aggressive. They’re very aggressive. That’s what they’re trained to be. And, of course, they project this aggressiveness into God and into the whole question of forgiveness. I’m sure they don’t get much forgiveness in the military so they don’t think that God is forgiving too. (“SO”) The key question becomes when someone realizes they made a mistake, why oh why oh why do they perpetuate it? Why can’t they just say, “Look, I made a mistake.” That’s one thing that none of the media people — none of the people I’ve come in contact with have been big enough to do. They just don’t understand that it’s not important what other people think about you. The only thing that’s important is what God thinks about you because God is determining your lessons and your future, (“N”) who or what you’ll be in the future. It doesn’t matter who or what you are now. I guess I couldn’t have been this relaxed to say all these things on the air. Of course, Bill — his website is just absurd. He’s got X-rated erotica mixed in with UFO B.S. We don’t want to say bullshit. Anyway, at one point he said that he’s a big airplane fanatic and the only thing more beautiful is a woman’s body so it gets all into that whole male chauvinistic pretense, putting on, trying to pretend how heterosexual they all are — (“N”) gets down to the other key predicament of the military in terms of heterosexuality goes hand in hand with the military mentality and the level of dishonesty here I’ll let you decide because, of course, social conditioning is a part of it, unfortunately. Anyway, it’s very consistent — my perspective of the phenomena, the military, sexuality. I mean I can explain the whole sexual confusion. I mean I’ve thought a lot about the subject. (“AND”) It seems quite basic and obvious that an individual projects his or her sexuality into their partner. I received the message that “God Is Gay” and so that proves that we truly are created equal. And it’s easy to comprehend why some people persecute people who are open about their sexuality. It’s because they are suppressing their own true preference.
( . . . )
Q: And how Whitley can let this guy go on and on, giving ridiculous replies, saying absurd things, makes me just that much more sure that Whitley’s got a lot of cover-ups going on. I mean there’s been so many indications of this over the years. His father, his uncles — (“JUST”) there’s just so much there.
( . . . )
Q: So, anyway, just to conclude this tape side, I guess tomorrow I’ll be calling the temp agency. The truth is I don’t want to work temp yet I can’t really get a good permanent job for obvious reasons, including I haven’t worked recently. (“N”) That’s sort of a difficult situation. I mean my temp agency contacts aren’t really good references at the moment, anyway. So I did get an interview request from the website, which I put into my journal — an Email interview they requested so I said I was available but I did want them to be familiar with my website. So Michael and Steve are on their way to St. John island, (“IN TH”) Caribbean, with Chandler who just got back from Hawaii. I mean some children never get to go anywhere. They live in poverty and Chandler gets everything she wants, goes everywhere and doesn’t even appreciate it because she doesn’t even understand — she doesn’t have time to understand what it is she’s experiencing. Then when she grows up and everything isn’t given to her there’ll be problems.
Q: Well I want to call tonight. I guess Phillip forgot the commercials so he’ll have to have double (this half hour) — as if there weren’t horrendously many already. So I guess I’ll tape the next half hour too. I don’t know if I’ll get on now or later. His other guest is Tom Shroder who has a book about reincarnation so you have an author selling a book about materialistic global trends and then you have a guest about reincarnation. I’m a little nervous. Take deep breaths. He seems like a nice man.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: DUE TO PREVIOUS EXPERIENCES, WHEN PHILLIP SAID “NOW” I THOUGHT IT COULD POSSIBLY BE A CHANNELED MESSAGE FOR ME TO CALL NOW. I PLANNED TO USE ONE TAPE RECORDER TO RECORD THE BROADCAST AND ANOTHER TO RECORD MY TELEPHONE CALL YET WHEN I HURRIEDLY BEGAN CALLING I COULDN’T HEAR ANYTHING COMING THROUGH THE EAR PHONES AND THOUGHT THE LISTENING DEVICE WASN’T WORKING ON THE BACK-UP RECORDER.)
Q: So then I switched to the other tape, hoping to use the functioning tape recorder. Oh it needs batteries too, I guess. I’m confused. I’m devastated. I was sure I was going to get on. Maybe this is proof that Mighael doesn’t love me any more. I guess that’s a question I have about — just how much is Mighael in control because some pretty terrible things happen. Obviously, God wouldn’t want terrible things to happen. I mean it seems to me that Mighael is the Angel that is the channel of thoughts and creativity between ourselves and God. Anyway, people wouldn’t get that though if I said it over the — they would think that was just too ludicrous. They have to be prepared. (“ME”) ‘So what if the Angel Michael is the Holy Ghost or Christ or Krishna or the —’ (“I”) in my introduction to New Testament, of course, it has very valid points about all that in the “Jesus: Second Coming” and “Oneness Of All Force” paragraphs.
Q: By the way, while those Art Bell commercials ring endlessly on, I was just thinking about Hitchcock. He made a big mistake in his interview with Mervin Griffin, talking about how the perfect crime is committed all the time because it’s something that people “get away with” so you never know about it but, of course, since we’re all linked to God through our shared subconscious mind there’s really no way of getting away with anything. Something to think about when you consider doing something really bad. Hell can be instantaneous. I think Art knows all about that. Once you’re not working with Spirit, once you do something — maybe — I don’t know. I can’t really judge. No one can really judge. In fact, that’s something else I’m willing to talk about on the air. Who knows? He might really think I am the Antichrist. I mean I have made mistakes. Anyway, I don’t really mean (“THIS”) to be a journal. This is supposed to be a taped radio segment so —
[2021 UPDATE: REGARDING 'MISTAKES' AS MENTIONED IN MY "2021 INTRODUCTION": Throughout the texts of my experiences and conversation the reader should always consider the event described and, separately, my choice of words to spontaneously express myself at each particular moment. My incessant spoken reflection was a way to keep a record of events via tape recorder with 'audio journal' and interview transcripts. Usually, like many writers, I’m very quiet and an introvert yet to analyze and talk about the manifold wonderful things chronicled in Testament I usually affected a bantering persona. There was the influence of my nondenominational Christian background in regard to the immediate conjectures made involving the nature of God and morality.]
Q: Well I was trying to dial in on the wild card line and I got through like five times in a row. I thought for sure I was going to get on the air. I was all ready. I was going to say, “Good evening, Phillip. Michael’s done a wonderful job of presenting the materialistic side of the problems of the world as we approach the new millennium but what about the spiritual aspects? It seems that Y2K and all of these events are being spiritually orchestrated in some ways through our shared subconscious. Of course, today is the historic date on the Aztec calendar and when you really think about it we are very much like the Aztecs. The civilization is flourishing again. There’s a lot in common. Anyone who tells the truth ends up as a sacrifice or victim in our day and age much like during the Aztecs’ time.” Anyway, I was hoping to segue into my being ostracized by others exploiting the corrupt social order — being an author who’s the victim of a media cover-up myself. God knows what I would’ve said? My notes sort of — I have notes in front of me so I might have referred to my Hitchcock ancestry. I’ve discovered people really aren’t comfortable with the subject of angelic or divine communication/reincarnation when it isn’t presented in a sentimental or heart-warming way. And in this case there is physical evidence. I was hoping to say, “I made the case study available free of charge on the Internet at testament.org” and maybe mention Art’s cover-up — anyway, maybe this is practice for later. Maybe I’ll get through on the next hour. My other — I have another tape recorder that isn’t working for some reason. The listening device. (sighs) I wonder what all this means.
Q: By the way, my (back-up) tape recorder is working. Just the volume was turned down very, very low. That’s why I didn’t think it was working.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: IT WAS AFTER MIDNIGHT WHEN PHILLIP MENTIONED THEY WERE GOING TO BEGIN ACCEPTING QUESTIONS FROM CALLERS. SINCE MY CALLS WENT UNANSWERED ON THE WILD CARD LINE EARLIER, I DIALED IN ON THE WESTERN U.S. LINE AND RECEIVED A BUSY SIGNAL. I REDIALED ON THE FIRST TIME CALLER LINE.)
(telephone ringing)
P: . . . were (BEEP) terribly brave to go to Beirut even though there is a certain amount of peace reigning, it’s still a dicey situation at the moment until they can get a grip on —
T: Yeah, I remember when I first was arranging to go there and I got on the Internet and checked the State Department page and they have this very frightening warning saying —
(TRANSCRIBER’S MESSAGE: THE TAPE RECORDED FROM THE BROADCAST IS LOUDER AND CLEARER. IN IT TOM CAN BE HEARD SAYING ‘NO’ BETWEEN ‘WARNING’ AND ‘SAYING.’ THERE WERE MANY INSTANCES OF THIS DURING THE BROADCAST AND MANY SOUND LIKE SPIRIT MESSAGES.)
S: “Coast To Coast AM” with Art Bell. What’s — actually Phillip Clarke filling in for Art Bell. What’s your first name?
Q: Mark.
S: Mark. And where are you calling from, Mark?
Q: I’m calling from the San Fernando Valley.
S: (O)kay. And you’re listening on KABC?
Q: Yes.
S: (O)kay. And what’s your question?
Q: My question has to deal with synchronicity and reincarnation in terms of people learning about past lives through indications other than memory or hypnosis.
S: Oh okay. Terrific question. I’m going to put you on hold. Make sure your radio is turned off and you speak up nice and loud for Phillip Clarke.
Q: Okay, it’s off.
S: Okay. Terrific, Mark. I’m putting you on hold.
Q: Okay.
T: It was very . . . moment was very intense because you’re — in India there’s no sort of getting away from it all.
P: Right.
T: You’re constantly bombarded. There’s just an unending sensory bombardment of, no, just the millions and the throngs and the — no, I — the only — the way I sort of got over the culture shock of being in India was I began to say, “Well I’m getting a chance to look at what it might’ve been like to be in Europe during the Middle Ages.” It had that feel. I mean there was on one hand —
P: Yes, of course.
T: — you had — you were surrounded by intense poverty and open sewage and pigs wallowing in the street but on the other hand there was just this endless life going on around you. (“NO”) Both animal and human. (“I”) And it was an incredible stimulating pageant at all times but it was exhausting. And Stephenson, no, who’s eighty years old would run me into the ground on these days. He often didn’t stop for lunch. And every once in a while he’d stop and say, “Well I think our driver might want to get a little something to eat.” No . . .
P: (laughs)
T: How about me?
P: Me too. Right.
T: And — well he’s just remarkable and in remarkable condition. And his — (“NO”) he’s so sharp and so learned, (“YEAH”) so widely read. He was just fascinating to be around.
P: Now I hope that before too much more time passes — perhaps with the help of your book that he’ll get some of the recognition that I think he deserves. Now let’s take some phone calls and see what the people out there have to ask you. So let’s go, first of all, to George in San Diego. Hello, George. How are you?
G: Good evening, Phillip and good evening, Tom. I wanted to offer some anecdotal evidence for Tom’s argument. It’s sort of second-hand hearsay but it’s from my mother about me. And I’m informed that when I was just a lad of maybe three or four I used to tell stories about having been in the British Royal Navy in the American Revolution and I seemed to know all sorts of things about sailing ships and the American Revolutionary War that I should not have otherwise known.
T: Oh that’s very interesting. It’s not typical of the kind of cases we were seeing because surprisingly all the children in the cases that we saw remembered lives in the immediate previous generation. I think the (“THE”) biggest — the biggest lapse between the death of the individual remembered and the child’s life was about twenty years, which I found rather remarkable. There weren’t — no, in most of the cases that we hear about from regression are things like you’re talking about where it skips several generations and goes back to something like that. But it’s interesting — you don’t remember any of this I take it?
G: No — yeah, again I — no, I seem — I have strange memories from my childhood but no, that does not happen to be one of them but I thought I’d share that because it seems to offer some corroboration to what you’re talking about. And I’m very skeptical about anything that can’t be proven at will under laboratory conditions but this one I don’t have an explanation for.
T: Yeah. Well, no, it’s interesting to — there are many anecdotal things but I think that if it weren’t for situations where the child was saying specific things that could later be corroborated about somebody’s life like, no, the girl who asked about, “Did your uncle give you the jewelry?” or Preidi who talked about, no, the names of her siblings and her parents and the place where she lived and described the house and things like that, that later could be proven to be true, I’d have to say that no matter how interesting what the child said — (“THERE’S”) no, there’s many possibilities. (“NO”) Maybe a child was aware of a movie or a television show or something like that. So in the absence of something that’s really — compels you to say, “Well there’s no way a child could’ve gotten that off the television or off of movies” — no, I would tend to sort of just think, “Well isn’t that interesting but it doesn’t really prove much.”
G: Well —
P: Thank you, George. Now let’s go to another caller. This time from the San Fernando Valley right here in L.A. (BEEP) Mark. Hello?
Q: Hi, Phillip.
P: Hi.
Q: I wanted to ask Tom about accounts of synchronicity and non-memory reincarnation accounts because in my own case Spirit led me to discovering about my former incarnation and I even had material proof. So is this common?
T: Well what are you — is what common? What are you —
Q: Well in my case, there was a small antique store near where I was living at the time. And I went in there and I found a small medallion that had my exact likeness. And, of course, there were many other events too. Like I found a book about this person who I was in a former life and as soon as I got home that night there was a power outage so I ended up reading the book by flashlight. And there was other synchronicity in terms of names. The name of the person who I was in my previous life was very similar to my name in this life. And I just wondered (“FOR”) like non-memory, non-hypnosis cases — I mean what — do you have any accounts (“WHE[RE]”) — there were similar cases where like, let’s say, an angel guides someone to find out about their previous existence?
T: Well I mean I’ve certainly heard of many accounts like that but (or “BUT”), no the (or “NO THE”) — what I was interested in was accounts that were, no, not based on received wisdom. I mean received wisdom would be like ‘an angel told me this.’ And, no (or “NO”), someone might’ve had an experience of an angel telling them something but there’s no way that an outside observer could be persuaded of that unless, no — unless they saw which isn’t the case, isn’t what happened.
P: So this is basically what a very personal experience that is not something that you could really check up.
Q: Well what —
T: Right. And it might be very personally valid to you but it’s not the sort of thing that people could be invited to check for themselves.
(TRANSCRIBER’S MESSAGE: SINCE I TAPED MY PARTICIPATION FROM THE TELEPHONE RECEIVER AND FROM THE BROADCAST WITH THE TAPE DELAY, I WAS ABLE TO COMPARE THE TAPES. AFTER TOM SAID “VALID TO YOU,” I MAY HAVE SAID “YEAH” HEARD ON THE TAPE MADE FROM THE TELEPHONE YET THIS ISN’T HEARD ON THE TAPE MADE FROM THE BROADCAST. MY INTERJECTING “WELL WHAT” IS BARELY AUDIBLE ON THE BROADCAST TAPE.)
Q: Yeah. Well in my case, what I ended up doing — what you had commented earlier about disbelief suppressing real cases really rung a bell with me — is I (or “IS I”) gathered up (“LIKE”) my various evidence and I put it on the Internet because I wasn’t really getting much press cooperation. So I have a website at testament.org and I just put up all the information there so I figure the people who are interested in it can get it free of charge and those who aren’t can just continue ignoring me. (“UM-HUH”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S MESSAGE: THE SPIRIT MESSAGE “UM-HUH” IS ONLY HEARD ON THE TAPE OF THE BROADCAST.)
P: (laughs) Okay, Mark, thank you very much for your call.
Q: (off the air) Okay. Tell Art I said hello.
P: Now let’s go to Jeff in Boston.
J: Okay.
P: Jeff?
J: Yes, I’m calling to tell people how I use lucid dreams to remember past lives and would like to recommend how listeners can do the same thing. And what I do is I fall asleep listening to the radio and hear the radio in my sleep. So I pick a commercial that I hear sometimes and I practiced thinking every time I hear that commercial ‘I will wonder if I’m dreaming.’ And so when I’m asleep hearing the radio and hear that commercial I wonder if I’m dreaming and to test this I stick my thumbs in my ears. If I still hear the commercial I know I’m dreaming because I know I’m not awake really physically sticking my thumbs in my ears, blocking the sound. And so once I know I’m dreaming, my mind becomes my psychic workshop and psychic playground and I do all sorts of research and successfully. I remember more and more of past lives through doing this. And I have a lot of fun in other ways along the way because my mind is my psychic workshop and psychic playground. And this works even better if someone records — a radio on VCR — using a VCR like a regular audio tape recorder because my — fall asleep listening to the VCR, I already heard it when I recorded it so I’m able to ignore it more when I’m hearing it and get to sleep more easily so night after night I hear the same eight-hour recording tape from a radio show on the VCR, having lucid dreams and I would like listeners to do the same thing and I’m wondering who to contact — maybe you or someone else about how to promote this idea more.
P: Well I think you pretty much put it out there. Let’s see if we get any response on it. Thank you very much for your call, Jeff. Now let’s go to John in Charleston, West Virginia.
J: Good morning.
P: Yes.
J: I was wondering if in your studies if you’ve ever heard of a change in gender?
T: Yes. There are some cross-gender cases that Dr. Stephenson has studied. And sometimes these are accompanied by some problems with sexual identity in the child’s current situation — the memories of being a different gender in a previous life is accompanied by, no (or “NO’), either homosexuality or cross-gender identification.
J: Thank you.
P: Mmm. Thank you very much for your call, John. Tom, we’ve got a lot of calls lined up but unfortunately we have to take a break at this point in time and I’m going to get right back to you as soon as we’ve taken our break and done all the things that we have to do. This is Phillip Clarke sitting in for Art Bell on this — well it’s not Friday any more. It’s Saturday here in Los Angeles. But we’ll struggle on through and we’ll go back to our author, Tom Shroder, author of Old Souls: The Scientific Evidence for Past Lives. Reincarnation is what we’re talking about and if you have a thought or a question, by all means give me a call. We’ll be back after these words.
(bumper music is “Words of Love” performed by The Mamas & The Papas)
Q: So I got on, thanks to Mighael. I did call on the first time caller line, which was sort of dishonest but I figure that’s sort of silly. Anyway, I mean Art’s been sort of dishonest about me by not having me on the show — suppression of the truth. So what’s one little bit of dishonesty? I had to get through. Anyway, I can live with that. Anyway, I don’t even know what I’m talking about. There are so many thing going through my mind. I did get the website out, I think, so I’m going to Email my webmaster just to let him know. All those millions of people trying to get on the website at the same time — yeah, right. Maybe a few if I’m lucky. But I’ll let him know in any case. My hopes are always much higher than what usually happens. But, anyway — oh I just — I can’t imagine being in this predicament. I just can’t imagine all the people who aren’t learning about what I have to share for such silly, silly reasons — such primitive reasons. Anyway, I hope my ‘psycho bitch from hell’ days are over. I’m filing with the temp agency on Monday because I don’t have any choice. I wanted to apologize to Art but I didn’t have the chance.
Q: So what do you think of the news coverage? Pretty pathetic. I got some Email from some jerk. It just says, “He says you’re not helping” with no period or anything.
Q: Well I guess I really don’t have to give you my interpretations, explanation or beliefs at this point. So it’s three o’clock on the fourteenth and I’m going to bed.
Q: So it’s Sunday night and I’m listening to “Dreamland” with Whitley Streiber as I work on the Internet, etc. I thought I would download the new website. But it’s getting complicated. Anyway.
( . . . )
Q: So “Dreamland” is now over. For a moment I was thinking that I should call in. Mighael wants me to call in. Whitley was interviewing Bill MacDonald, who I found terribly unforthcoming the last time he was one. He just didn’t make sense. He couldn’t talk about a lot of things. What he did say seemed to have a bias. He just was — just not coherent. So, of course, I could call and I’m not quite sure how I would’ve said it. (“BUT”) I would’ve just raised the point about these people with military backgrounds and how can anyone really trust them because, of course, the military aspect is key to the whole cover-up. My estimation is that for these people at some point in their dealings they do get some feeling that the phenomena is something divine, something of God and, of course, in the minds with all their military backgrounds and the basic opposition with God’s word in terms of ‘Thou Shalt Not Kill’ and — well just all the military sensibility. So — and, of course, these people are very — what’s the word? Aggressive. They’re very aggressive. That’s what they’re trained to be. And, of course, they project this aggressiveness into God and into the whole question of forgiveness. I’m sure they don’t get much forgiveness in the military so they don’t think that God is forgiving too. (“SO”) The key question becomes when someone realizes they made a mistake, why oh why oh why do they perpetuate it? Why can’t they just say, “Look, I made a mistake.” That’s one thing that none of the media people — none of the people I’ve come in contact with have been big enough to do. They just don’t understand that it’s not important what other people think about you. The only thing that’s important is what God thinks about you because God is determining your lessons and your future, (“N”) who or what you’ll be in the future. It doesn’t matter who or what you are now. I guess I couldn’t have been this relaxed to say all these things on the air. Of course, Bill — his website is just absurd. He’s got X-rated erotica mixed in with UFO B.S. We don’t want to say bullshit. Anyway, at one point he said that he’s a big airplane fanatic and the only thing more beautiful is a woman’s body so it gets all into that whole male chauvinistic pretense, putting on, trying to pretend how heterosexual they all are — (“N”) gets down to the other key predicament of the military in terms of heterosexuality goes hand in hand with the military mentality and the level of dishonesty here I’ll let you decide because, of course, social conditioning is a part of it, unfortunately. Anyway, it’s very consistent — my perspective of the phenomena, the military, sexuality. I mean I can explain the whole sexual confusion. I mean I’ve thought a lot about the subject. (“AND”) It seems quite basic and obvious that an individual projects his or her sexuality into their partner. I received the message that “God Is Gay” and so that proves that we truly are created equal. And it’s easy to comprehend why some people persecute people who are open about their sexuality. It’s because they are suppressing their own true preference.
( . . . )
Q: And how Whitley can let this guy go on and on, giving ridiculous replies, saying absurd things, makes me just that much more sure that Whitley’s got a lot of cover-ups going on. I mean there’s been so many indications of this over the years. His father, his uncles — (“JUST”) there’s just so much there.
( . . . )
Q: So, anyway, just to conclude this tape side, I guess tomorrow I’ll be calling the temp agency. The truth is I don’t want to work temp yet I can’t really get a good permanent job for obvious reasons, including I haven’t worked recently. (“N”) That’s sort of a difficult situation. I mean my temp agency contacts aren’t really good references at the moment, anyway. So I did get an interview request from the website, which I put into my journal — an Email interview they requested so I said I was available but I did want them to be familiar with my website. So Michael and Steve are on their way to St. John island, (“IN TH”) Caribbean, with Chandler who just got back from Hawaii. I mean some children never get to go anywhere. They live in poverty and Chandler gets everything she wants, goes everywhere and doesn’t even appreciate it because she doesn’t even understand — she doesn’t have time to understand what it is she’s experiencing. Then when she grows up and everything isn’t given to her there’ll be problems.
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