RADIO INTERVIEW — TAPE #778
Q: Mark Russell Bell
S: Scott L, co-host of “Ghostly Talk” Internet show
D: Doug, co-host of “Ghostly Talk” Internet show
(X): (unattributed sounds occasionally noted as samples)
S: Scott here. “Ghostly Talk.” How ya doin’, man?
Q: Hi. Very good.
S: Alright, stand by. We’re in a break right now. I’ve got to take care of a couple little things so just hang on the phone.
S: I’ll let you know in a couple seconds what we’re going to do, okay?
S: Give me a second. Thanks. (pause)
D: Is he on the phone?
S: He’s on the phone.
D: Oh hey Mark.
D: Hi. My name’s Doug.
Q: Hi, Doug.
S: You know what? I’m going to use the bathroom too. I —
D: Yeah, during our break, it’s a little — it’s a little relaxed around here.
Q: Oh that’s good.
D: (laughs) So how’s your weekend going?
Q: It’s going fine.
Q: Yeah. Sort of busy but —
D: Oh I know how you feel.
Q: Yeah but we get a Monday holiday so.
D: Yeah. I know I do too and I’m looking forward to it. Tomorrow, I’m having a — a — like I’m going to a picnic kind of thing. It ought to be freezing here in Michigan.
Q: Let me ask you. How — how much of my website have you had the chance to read yet?
D: I haven’t had very much.
D: I did re(ad) — I — I read a little bit of it. But I didn’t get a chance to do a lot so you’re going to do a lot of explaining —
D: — if you don’t mind.
Q: I don’t mind. I’m sort of used to it. The news release that I send out usually is pretty succinct. Because there’s so much to the story.
D: Excellent. I — I wish I had done that.
Q: And I was recently at the Consciousness Expo here in L.A. so I became accustomed to boiling it down to just a few sentences as people would come up to my booth. So —
D: Well that’s — (“COOL”) well I think that —
S: There’s the ice cream truck.
D: Yeah. That’s our — our weekly appearance by the ice cream lady. (small laugh) Fortunately, our — our audience, you know, is worldwide.
D: And, like, right now there’s maybe a couple of hundred people listening at the moment (“DOU”) so — to the — to the live stream. But most of our listeners listen to the replays.
Q: Right. The archive. Yeah, I heard one.
D: Yeah, so you’re going to have like thousands and thousands of people throughout the world listen to the replays. But live (it’s) no pressure because there’s very few people actually —
S: No pressure anyways.
D: You know — in the coup(le) — couple of hundreds maybe listening at the moment.
Q: (small laugh)
D: But — but the replays are — are where you get most of the action.
D: You know.
Q: I w(as) — my last show that I did also was an Internet show.
D: Um-huh. (“AN IT” “SO”)
Q: There must — I think the same is true for that one.
D: Yeah. So that’s how it works because the Internet’s a lot more laid back that way because — cause people can, you know, download the archives later and — and stuff like that.
D: And I’ll — I’ll dash you off an Email with — with a link to the archive because I’ll put it up in the archive page.
D: And — and so that you can grab a hold of it (“RIGHT”) and put your —
S: You can — right — you can (“BY”) — you do whatever you want with that. If you want to put it up on your website, feel free.
D: Yeah, or — or cut it out — you know, chop it off — whatever you want to do to it, you can do whatever you want with it if it’s useful to you.
Q: Oh, okay. And, yeah, so maybe I’ll mention my website at the beginning (“O”) just —
S: Oh mention it a million times.
D: Yeah. Do it a million times if you want.
S: We’ve already mentioned it a couple of times for you so — (small laugh)
Q: Oh good. Okay.
S: Quick question — I — (“WHA[T DO YO]U”) what do you go by? You go by Mark or Mr. Bell or —
Q: Mark is fine.
S: Mark. Okay, cool. I didn’t know what to call you. (laughs) How much time — how much more time we’ve got, Will?
W: A minute thirty.
S: Okay, we’ve got a minute thirty before we go back on the air, okay?
S: So basically what you’re going to be — you’ll hear us and you’ll know what’s going on.
D: Yeah. A(fter) —
S: You’ll hear us go into it.
D: Yeah. After we — after we start going back on the air — now it’s not — because we don’t have like one of them really fancy things?
D: Your mic’ll be hot. (“YOU’LL”) Like if you say or anything or laugh or whatever. (small laugh) They’ll hear ya. So what you want to do is you want to like hang out pretty much until we start asking questions or whatever.
D: Which’ll be right away.
D: Yeah, there’s not going to be like a lot of hanging out.
D: (laughs) Because you’re — you’re one of the coolest things that’s happened to “Ghostly Talk” in a long time.
S: Now — (“BELL” “THEY”)
Q: Well it’s funny when I — when I first heard your show — I’d worked on the — on the movie “Wayne’s World” so I thought well this is like the unexplained equivalent of “Wayne’s World.”
S: You’re kidding me. You’re kidding when you say that.
D: That’s the second time I’ve heard —
D: Yeah . . . yeah. That’s awesome.
S: And we’re coming back.
Q: Okay but my story’s so unusual that, you know, I’m not quite sure if I should just summarize it to begin with or just — I think I’ll talk about my research because there was some (“IN”) —
S: That’s a good . . .
D: That’s good to lead with. Let’s do that.
S: We’ll get you — yeah, we’ll start on that. (“WE’RE GG”) We’re going on right now.
Q: Okay. Okay, good.
S: Hang tight. (“VERY WELL”)
D: Well alright.
Q: Here I am.
D: Hey, everyone. You guys —
S: There he is.
D: — you guys missed the — the ice cream lady. She was already by.
S: Yeah, she went through (or “SHE WENT THROUGH”) — yeah, she went through during the commercial.
D: Yeah, she came by during the commercial. We have Mark Russell Bell on the phone live right now.
S: Hi, Mark.
Q: Hi, Scott. Hi, Doug.
D: How are you doing?
Q: Very good.
D: Oh, it’s so much easier to hear him through the headphones.
S: Yeah. (small laugh)
D: Yeah. (small laugh) I like this.
S: We’d like to thank you — thank you for coming on —
Q: Yeah —
S: — first of all, to start off with.
D: This is a great honor.
S: We really appreciate it.
Q: Yeah, it’ll be interesting to talk about — to two investigators because that’s sort of how I started. And then, of course, events sort of became more and more unusual, which led to my book, of course.
D: So you — you — your — your research. You were an investigator, then? You — you’ve done — you were doing the research — what — into the — into the talking form of poltergeists or was this more general?
Q: Well it was more — at first it was more general because I’d had a few bizarre experiences (“AS A”) as a child where I would hear a voice calling my name and once I held a seance and there was like a mini-tornado outside the apartment. (“SO”) These events sort of made me want to investigate the unexplained. So I would read about UFOs and bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster. And then there were books like (“O[NE]”) one entitled Some Human Oddities by Eric Dingwall that looked at such people as St. Joseph of Copertino. As well as — and other poltergeist cases. So by looking at all these cases — I don’t know really what I was looking for but my life was very unusual because I also had fainting spells when I was a child. I was very introverted, very sensitive and there were a number of different experiences. It sort of made me very introverted. I was an identical twin so my twin brother was probably the more outgoing one and, of course, I would read everything I could find my hands on about the unexplained. And so eventually I went to college at USC. I majored in cinema. And after that I wanted to become a writer so I sort of tried to get into jobs that would further my writing career, which sort of plays a part into what I experienced later because in Hollywood I found out it’s sort of the dream capital of the world where you’re dealing with all kinds of different stories coming from the shared Superconsciousness, you might say, so there were all these different metaphors in my life. And it all sort of culminated in my experience when I went to Oklahoma to investigate a contemporary talking poltergeist. This was after researching other talking poltergeists and actually finishing a book on the subject.
D: When —
Q: I think the mai(n) —
D: I — I — I — I want to interrupt just one quick second.
Q: Okay. Yeah?
D: When — dur(ing) — this — this — do you see this whole progression of — of stuff in your life that (or “THAT”) — that happened, do you see everything before as being like a building block to where you are now?
Q: I was just thinking about that today — how (“SOME”) some of the things that happened to me I didn’t understand at the time and even when I was working at Paramount Pictures — I mean I was working on some very well-known movies like “Forrest Gump” and “Braveheart.” (“BUT”) O(thers) — others that weren’t so well-known and even the least-known ones like “Welcome Home, Roxy Carmichael” had bizarre sort of parallels to my own experiences.
D: I — I fully believe that. I — I think that a lot of the things that happen in your life — you know, you — you won’t be able to put together until a certain (“LIKE”) enlightenment time where all of a sudden a lot of things start to make sense.
Q: And plus I — I also was able to see firsthand how Hollywood changes the screenwriter’s vision. For example, I worked on the film “1492: Conquest of Paradise” and in the original script Columbus saw (“AA”) light in the sky — perhaps a UFO leading him to the new world and, of course, that was edited out from (X) the version that was finally released.
D: Well they’re — y(ou) — I — I ha(d) — t(o) — to their cre(dit) — or not to, you know, demean or whatever the industry, I think a lot of the decisions they make aren’t necessarily, you know, conspiratorial. I — I think that a lot of it needs to be edited for time and content and flow and I mean there’s a lot of artistic stuff that’s got to —
(EDITOR’S NOTE: COLUMBUS’S EXPERIENCE SEEING THE LIGHT IN THE SKY WAS PIVOTAL TO HIS EXPERIENCE AS RECORDED IN HIS JOURNAL.)
Q: Well I can tell you firsthand that it’s all about (“WHAT”) whatever will make them the most money and that’s the — really the only thing that they care about. Controversy is fine if it will create publicity that will take people to the theatres.
D: Since “JFK” and stuff like that.
S: (small laugh)
D: But yeah —
Q: Well unfor(tunately) —
D: No, I — I agree but I — I think that when — even — even when — when smaller budget movies — more — more like (X) things where people’s hearts are into it. Like the one that we were in — the “After Life” movie, for example.
S: Yeah, uh-huh.
D: They (or “THEY”) — the — where — where your heart and soul is being put into this like independent movie kind of thing. I think that even then a lot of stuff, (“TENDS T[O]”) you know — well now it’s going to drop on the cutting room floor. For independent producers — you know, get deleted off the file. But —
S: Yeah . . .
D: But I — I think that a lot of stuff gets, you know, taken out for — for artistic reasons as well. I think Hollywood though — you’re — you’re absolutely right.
Q: Well —
D: It’s all bottom line.
Q: I — I think what says it all is that I worked on such movies as “Ghost,” “Dead Again,” the reissue of “The Ten Commandments,” the reissue of “1900” — the unedited version, “The Naked Gun” movies — I mean just looking at some of the parallels to the headlines, it’s just un(canny) — uncanny.
D: So when — in order not to get in trouble with Hollywood anymore — (laughs)
D: Not that we — oh, believe me, if you’ve heard past “Ghostly Talk,” we’ve ragged on Hollywood but I — I’m wondering though — you said you ended up — this is where we left off before I interrupted you.
D: You said you left off investigating a noisy poltergeist or a — a talking poltergeist case in Oklahoma. Was that the first time you actually went to a place? When was the first time you actually went somewhere?
Q: That was the first time.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THE OKLAHOMA TRIP WAS THE FIRST TIME I HAD INVESTIGATED A HAUNTING ON MY OWN; HOWEVER, I HAD PARTICIPATED IN ‘GHOST TOURS’ WHILE ON VACATION IN LONDON AND SANTA FE, NEW MEXICO.)
D: And — and how was — how did you contact the people? What did — how did they receive you?
Q: Well what happened is — okay, I had just finished my — my history of talking poltergeists, a manuscript, when I picked up a Fortean Times magazine that said “America’s Talking Poltergeist” right on the cover. (“AN I”) I — so I, of course, I purchased it and read the article. And I couldn’t believe it because (“THIS WAS”) it was too good to be true. Here was a contemporary version of the talking poltergeist.
D: Yes. Less than a thousand miles away from where you probably were or something so —
Q: Well it —
D: — you hopped in your car or did you call? What happened?
Q: Well they didn’t have a phone —
Q: — so I ended up — I think I wrote to them and then they called me — (“I”) told them to call me collect. (“I”) I think I left a message at one point at the post office in town. It was a very, very small town, by the way. But you have to remember this was after I had researched the Bell Witch. I’m sure you’re familiar with the Bell Witch.
S: Oh yeah.
Q: Are you?
D: What a fascinating story the Bell Witch is.
Q: Okay. So I’d read all — I mean I’d read everything that there is available on that, scouring libraries. And I even wrote a screenplay at one point. And then I also — another prominent case was the Gef the Talking Mongoose case, which was presented in a book entitled The Haunting of Cashen’s Gap, co-authored by Harry Price, which was published in London in 1936.
D: Well I’m familiar with Harry Price but not that particular case.
D: Amazing stuff.
Q: It’s — (X “IT”) it’s very — it seems so crazy that you just wonder how on Earth could these people have given —
D: (laughs) I agree.
Q: — any credibility at all. But then there are so many little strange parallels and things that really nag at you. For example, when I was researching the Bell Witch — I just pulled out my notes — I read on page 160 it said, “Kate”—which was what they named—
S: Yeah. Kate —
D: Our listeners are familiar with Kate.
Q: Yeah. Okay. “Kate, as before intimated, visited the family of Brother Jesse Bell quite often, making demonstrations, but never to the extent of the manifestations at home. Jesse’s wife, whom the witch called ‘Pots,’ observed mother’s policy in humoring the warlock . . .” etc. And so then when I was reading The Haunting of Cashen’s Gap — reading such things as (“MIN”) ” . . . Mrs. Irving, who called out: ‘You know, Gef, you are no animal!’ (X) To which the ‘mongoose’ replied, ‘Of course I am not! I am the Holy Ghost!” Only a couple times was the poltergeist really seen in the form of a mongoose. And the family had problems with evidence. For example, the mongoose gave them some hairs and said it was from him when it actually was from the family dog. So it seemed like the Haunting Presence was trying to throw people off the trail because it had some ulterior motive. But I read on page 29 that “The mongoose usually called Mr. Irving ‘Jim’ or ‘Pots” . . . ,” which was —
D: Oh wow.
Q: Exactly. The same nickname. (“SO”) These were two cases which were divided by one ocean and many, many years — both pretty obscure and —
D: But yet with a — an interesting — not I would think — not very common name as the linking thread.
Q: Not at all.
Q: I mean what would — what would you make of that? I mean you —
D: Well I know if anybody ever called me ‘Pots,’ I’d be like, “Uh hello?”
Q: But —
S: I mean as far as the (“RIGHT”) com(parison) — I mean like you just said a second ago. I mean we’re talking about many years and a whole ocean —
S: — separate these two particular occurrences. (X)
Q: So —
S: And for those two to have equilibrium. (“WELL”)
Q: Okay, and then I found out after — okay, the family in Oklahoma called me and while we were talking — and I have this conversation published in the book. And, by the way, the whole book is at the website testament.org.
Q: Mrs. Mc Wethy, it tur(ned out) — was telling me that she used to be called Bell before she was remarried. And a lot of her daughters (I meant relatives) also (“WERE”) were — still had the Bell surname. So I was thinking, “Oh my gosh, this is like a dynasty of poltergeists.” So — and plus there were many other parallels between the Bell Witch case and this family. For Example, the father was very — was very sick. In — in this family as well. One of — I should say one of them (“THAT”) because there were two. There was Carleton Bell, whose, actually, funeral I attended when I was in Oklahoma. I was only there for a weekend and that was the exact weekend that happened to be the funeral.
D: That’s really —
D: — really strange. I don’t know. I would’ve felt really bizarre.
Q: Well it was beyond bizarre for me because even on the plane on the way over I heard some — some women on the plane talking about a haunted house in Oklahoma City and I was thinking to myself, “Well I’m going to the ultimate haunted house,” having — after reading the Fortean Times article. And, of course, that article is also at my website. But when — when I was there, I heard spirit voices. I saw objects materialize. When I went home one night there was a rapping at the door. I looked out the window and there was this huge beetle throwing itself against the door. It looked like a scarab — an Egyptian scarab. And I talked to the — the family about this because I just — (“I”) had never been to Oklahoma before so I wondered if this was usual for insects in Oklahoma and, of course, the answer was not — that it wasn’t usual at all.
D: Well that — that kind of thing does happen here in Michigan. Those huge scarab-looking like beetles going (“VO”) . . .
Q: This went on for at least —
S: Oh yeah. It happens all the time here.
D: Yeah here —
D: No, it does. I — I —
Q: But does it — but do they throw themselves against the door for like fifteen minutes to a half hour?
D: Well no, usually a couple of times.
S: Well when you — when you say hu(ge) — let’s — let’s — let’s clarify huge here.
S: What kind of a — how big are we talking? I mean like let’s tal(k) — in numbers here?
D: Well if it’s like the ones here in Michigan, (“THEY’RE”) it’s going to be like about an inch to an inch and a half tall or wide or whatever.
Q: Yeah, I would say that. (“I MEAN” X)
Q: Bigger than a half dollar. I mean —
D: And they’re — and they’re hard shelled an(d) — and yes, they do make a — a rapping noise when they bang against the door. Th(at) — that happens though typically only when you have the porchlight on. (“WELL THERE”)
Q: There was a parallel too because that Fortean Times cover had Egypt on the cover. And at the — I didn’t put that together at the time. The other night, when I — I called my twin brother up in L.A. just to let him know how things were going — and he was half asleep when he answered the phone. And he said “My bed is shaking” all of a sudden when I was speaking to him over the phone. (“SO”) These were some of the different powers that I was (“SORT OF”) seeing manifested. And they also told me that the spirit usually destroyed people’s tape recordings from the house. However, I checked each one of mine and, of course, the Spirit lovingly let me keep mine. So — which they couldn’t believe.
D: Well which is actually interesting because like I — I was talking — you know, we — we were talking earlier and I said, you know, the building block kind of thing bring to where you are right now in your life. You were undoubtedly then meant to have those recordings for some reason.
Q: I — I was. And not only that. (“BUT”) I’ve sort of become very good at boiling down my experience to a few sentences after the last expo and what-have-you. I have to remind everyone that it has taken me many years but I have to say that Spirit’s interaction with us is influenced by our own belief systems. So in this — in this respect, there’s really no substitute for reading my book because it (X) — it presents what happened as a case study documentary-style fashion. I don’t e(dit) — leave anything out. You really have to sort of read in-between the lines to see what’s really going on here. Basically, I would say the Superconscious Mind was manifesting in various ways based on my belief system so I would expand my consciousness to understanding such concepts as a spiritual Oneness, karma, reincarnation and what-have-you. So, in fact, I — see, that’s the one thing that really freaks people out the most. (“OM”) Because like my life — I just see it as very normal. This interaction with the Superconscious Mind. For example, I’ll notice messages on license plates or bumper stickers. People will sometimes sort of talk to me — I’ll pass people who are (“TAL”) in a middle of a conversation and yet it seems to relate to me. (“I[T]”) It’s — it’s very bizarre. And like I remember once when I was working as a temp — I now have (“AA”) a permanent job. (“BUT”) I was having all these terrible experiences as a — as a temporary worker because I really wasn’t sure what I should be doing. And I learned to stay away from shareholder companies, for example.
Q: Sort of the spirit who I call Mighael (pronounced ‘Michael’), (“WHICH WAS”) the name that the family in Oklahoma called their haunting entity — the same One, if you will, as in the Messages From Michael books (“SO”) and many other cases that I’ve tried to document. (“SO”) Basically, I remember there was one job when I was — where I was working at a company that — it was a non-shareholder company. It was (“AA”) a fulfillment house. However, the work was involved with a questionnaire for a pharmaceutical company and I felt — (“WW” “I”) you know, I don’t really want to work for pharmaceutical companies and I thought that well maybe since I sometimes — (“SEE”) importance — the importance of anagrams within names and what-have-you — the fact that it was located on Nordhoff — I thought well maybe that’s the ‘ho’ like in Hollywood — sort of a ‘ho’ metaphor and I was just sort of beating myself up, thinking that (X) this was sort of a whorey job. And I remember feeling very distraught and I have to make money because I was really down (“YEAH”) to my — the last few hundred dollars.
D: Been there, done that. Yeah.
Q: So —
S: And I’ll probably be there again. (“AT”)
Q: — so I was making my lunch — I (or “I”) — practically on the verge of tears and (X) I was putting some nuts into my lunch — into a (“A”) plastic bag for my lunch and one of them suddenly materialized in my hand, which was sort of telling me, ‘You’re going overboard with this analy(sis) — analyzation, you nut.’ You know — that kind of — so it’s a very lovingly — loving communication that I get. (X) I also remember hearing at the gym at one point when I was analyzing everything — there was The Cranberries’ song “Analyze” came on.
Q: Yeah, exactly. So — so I — it’s — I’ve never really felt threatened — well there’ve been a few time s I have felt threatened when I (“WOULD”) make horrendous mistakes like not wanting to work as a volunteer for the food bank at APLA or not wanting to leave a temp job when obviously Spirit wanted me to leave.
Q: So usually this manifests in close misses on the freeway. I think that’s — that’s always a symptom that something is wrong in your life when you experience a close miss in traffic or on the freeway.
[2021 UPDATE: THIS IS THE TYPE OF STATEMENT THAT I NOW TRY TO AVOID MAKING AS LISTENERS OR READERS MAY NOT UNDERSTAND THE CONTEXT. SOMETHING LITERALLY TRUE FOR EXAMPLE WOULD BE 'HAVING A PROBLEM CAN LEAD ONE TO BEING DISTRACTED FROM CONCENTRATING ON DRIVING.']
S: Don’t get us started.
D: Yeah, I don’t know if you — what — I don’t know what episode of “Ghostly Talk” you listened to but there was an episode where we went on for about five minutes about an accident that one of us happened on a —
D: — on a ghost hunting trip.
S: Well there was actually five cars . . .
D: There were five cars. Only one got bumped and only a tiny little bit. But —
S: But it was a very scary, scary, scary . . .
D: Scary and tragic and — but th(at) — I — I thought that was meant to delay us. Not to, you know — not to tell us not to go, thank heaven.
S: See, I don’t think — I didn’t think about it that deep, actually. I just thought it was a dumb person that — (laughs)
D: Well it was a dumb person.
S: It was a very dumb person.
D: The lady in the little red car needed to be, no, taken out back.
D: But she — but I — I think that I — I — we can identify with you, Mark.
S: Yeah. Completely on that.
D: We — we know what you’re talking about.
S: You brought it into a whole new light. Now Mark, you were talking about when you were — when you were on your investigation in Oklahoma about materialization —
S: — of objects.
S: The question I have — I read th(is) — I read this already, obviously. And the one thing I thought about — I saw a picture of coins —
S: — in particular on your website.
S: Were there any type of like interesting characteristics of these coins that may have m(ade) — been very noteworthy. I mean (“WH”) what was the year on these coins?
Q: Well there — there’s one — okay, there’s one picture that has a lot of different coins in it. And those all ma(terial) —
S: Uh-huh, yeah. That’s what I remember. (“HH”)
Q: Right. And they (“WW”) — very, very hot to the touch at first. There — when I was in the car, at one point a dime was thrown from nobody in the back seat against the inside of the wind — windshield. And then (“A FEW”) a few seconds or a moment later a rock came flying from outside and hit the outside of the windshield. (X) So I was —
D: So if you don’t — didn’t notice it going one way, you noticed the other way.
Q: Well it was — I think that that was meant just to tell me that the Spirit is both inside and outside the car.
Q: I mean I — my little mind was working, trying to add these things up and plus the lights on the dashboard were going in and out. This was at dusk and it was blinking on and off so, of course, you’re thinking, “Well is it a loose wire?” When it got darker, however, it didn’t do that.
D: Ah. (“SO”)
Q: My (“I”) actual conversation with Twyla is (X) printed verbatim without anything omitted. (X “WE” X) And I think that really speaks for itself. But I think (X) the parallels were unusual. For example, in the Bell Witch case there was that famous incident of hearing the two Sunday sermons delivered —
Q: — verbatim in the voices of the ministers by what they called ‘the Bell Witch.’ Well when I was in Oklahoma, in our casual conversation Twyla was telling me about an incident where she heard her sister’s friend (“SAY”) apologize for being late due to a flat tire. But this actually — she heard the same conversation twice. When she came out she actually saw it happen so she told me that it was as if the house had recorded the conversation and played it back before it had taken place. So I was seeing parallels between the Bell Witch case and this case and then when I got home to Los Angeles — I was living in the Echo Park area right outside of the Angelus Temple — wh(en ) my TV started going off whenever I tried to watch television. The Haunting Presence in my case did not want — want me watching television and, of course, I’ve learned since then that it’s the ultimate mind control device. But there was one night when I was going to (“WA”) watch “The Real World” on MTV —
S: Oh God, Mark —
D: There you go. Mind control, right there.
Q: Well —
D: We don’t have much to say about “The Real World.”
S: I’d have shut the TV o(ff) —
Q: Well — well —
S: — I would’ve shut it off myself.
Q: Well this —
S: I’d have come in there and shut your TV set off.
Q: Well this —
D: If I — If I had —
D: — if I had what — what do they call it? Psycho-kinetic powers — I would’ve turned your TV off too.
Q: Well this was — you have to remember this was —
D: Or at least changed the channel.
Q: This was a night — this was before — 1995.
D: Yeah, okay.
Q: I mean this was — this was the show when it was — I m(ean) — I don’t know — I don’t watch TV anymore so I don’t know what it has become but this particular show was set in London and the moment I turned on the television, the phone did not work in their house. (“SO”) The Entity was basically telling me that It had power over time and then the TV went off, by the way. And I just had the message that (X X) the Spirit wants me to work on the book. I mean this very much seemed like the same Spirit who had collaborated with Charles Dickens on A Christmas Carol. And, of course, when I was at Paramount I worked on the movie “Scrooged” with Bill Murray.
A: (small laugh)
Q: And —
D: Your — if you drew a — a — a picture of all of these parallels, it would probably look like some huge spider web then.
Q: Well —
D: I mean because your — the(re’s) — there’s all these parallels that have happened in the different facets of your life.
Q: Well in my book you’ll notice when I was — I would — would attend lectures at the Philosophical Research Society. And at one point I was even saying, “I’m the center of the synchronicity.” Well, of course, everyone’s the center of the synchronicity.
S: (small laugh) Yeah.
Q: But you have to remember, though, when I make these comments, it’s sometimes the people talking to me will really be communicating the thoughts of the Superconscious Mind because when you really think about where thoughts come from, it’s really hard to say. And, of course, we really choose which thoughts we embrace. So there definitely is a positive pole and a negative pole from where our thoughts come from and we choose which ones we want to bring into fruition, so to speak. But — some of (X) — you know, the things — this is basically my learning experience, my warts and all approach. (X) I mean I (X) talk about my past mistakes in life, such as working in the porno magazine industry and — when I was going (“YOU KNOW”) through — working my way through college. (“AN”) And, of course, now I’ve turned my back on Hollywood and that whole corporate system. And —
D: Well I don’t know if that was a bad career move or a good career move but I do know that for our careers we, even though it’s a — an amateur show done for thousands of people, heard throughout the world instead of like something on ABC —
D: — we do have to take a break.
D: So let us take a little break.
S: Mark, just hang out. We’re going to —
S: — take a break here, okay?
S: Hold that thought. Don’t go anywhere.
Q: I won’t.
S: Everybody out there, hang tight. We’ll be right back here on “Ghostly Talk.”
D: Yes, we’ll be right back with Mark Russell Bell.
S: Still with us, Mark?
Q: Yeah, I’m still on.
D: Ah cool.
S: We’re going to take a quick breather. Well not quick. How long’s the bumper?
W: Oh about a minute.
S: We’ve got about seven minutes — (my tape recorder reversed sides here and then continued recording)
D: . . . Yeah. Well what we do is we don’t do like little — a little commercial thing.
D: We — we do ’em at the — at the top and bottom of each hour we do the whole thing.
D: And, of course, they’re always hilarious lately.
S: Yeah. (small laugh)
D: So (laughs) we — we have a lot of fun because we don’t actually have corporate sponsors. We do this out of our own pocket.
Q: And what are the messages basically?
D: It’s — well this one — what’s this one? This — this one is —
S: I don’t remember.
D: What are we playing on this one? I don’t remember. We’re — we — we just play songs that we think are funny.
Q: Oh. Okay.
D: Things like that. And then the actual commercial things that we do are for the people on the “Zero Point Radio” that — that we broadcast on.
S: Or people — or people that have businesses that are, no — that’ve like helped us out or — for example, Stagehand Tools just g(ave) — sent us a big care package full of all kinds of cool equipment like ghosthunting equipment and stuff like that so that’s actually slated for production this week. We’re going to be doing a whole big commercial for those guys to put in rotation on our show.
Q: Oh, okay.
S: Time to time it’s just — it’s more or less just like you scratch my back , I’ll scratch your back kind of thing.
S: You know, it’s all free that way and we all enjoy it. We all have a good time. We all make — we all prosper that way.
Q: Do you ever listen to any of the other paranormal radio shows?
S: Oh yeah.
D: Oh yeah. There’s — well Clyde Lewis, for example, is the most well-known. Clyde Lewis is — he does “Ground Zero.”
D: And that’s out of like — not Salem, Washington. The other one.
Q: I’ve never done that one.
D: . . . No.
D: It — like . . .
Q: Yeah, I’ve done — I’ve — I’ve heard of it.
D: . . . anyway.
Q: Yeah, I’ve heard of it. I’ve done a lot of them but I haven’t done that one.
D: And he —
S: . . . is a very cool guy.
D: Oh, he is phenomenal. And he’s our most well-known show that’s on “Zero Point Radio.” But then there’s us and there’s “Rezmarized.” And — and Resmiranda does that. She’s like an Internet psychic lady.
D: And then there’s — oh there’s the UFO folks. There’s a brand new show done by a couple of kids in college and they actually had last night Stanton Friedman on. Stanton Friedman is the — like the father of the Roswell conspiracy kind of thing.
Q: Yeah, I — I — I — I mean he’s so prominent in the field. And, of course, you always have to wonder who are the disinformation people and that kind of thing but I don’t know. (“I MEAN”) Do you ever listen to “Coast to Coast”?
D: Oh I —
S: Oh yeah.
D: — used to listen all the time. Now — now that George Noory seems to be the — the host —
Q: But their — their guests remain so consistent in many ways. And, you know, I — I just — I just find it — I don’t know — I mean they’re been a lot of corporate articles about Clear Channel recently on the Internet.
D: There sure have.
Q: I mean talk —
D: Clear Channel is not necessarily a bad word at — at Zero Point Radio because absolutely everybody who listens to us also listens to, you know, the old Art Bell show now.
Q: Yeah but when — when you hear George Noory making — (“YOU KNOW”) you know, getting upset when anyone says anything bad about the President, you can trace it back to the executive suite of Clear Channel.
S: Oh I know.
D: Yeah, that — that’s again with Clear Channel —
D: — that’s all money. It’s all money-driven now.
Q: I know. Well it’s — it’s — they also have a — a political agenda too.
D: Oh gosh yeah.
Q I mean look what they did with the Dixie Chicks.
D: I know. Oh my gosh.
Q: I mean — and they did — the Dixie Chicks really didn’t do anything.
D: I — I didn’t think that was so bad. (“EE”)
Q: But the media, my gosh. I mean see, (“JUST SHOW”) we have such a controlled media that I think that shows like yours (“ARE”) — they are (“ARE THE”) — are the only thing promising for the future just because there’s so much corporate control.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: INTERNET ARTICLES ABOUT CLEAR CHANNEL INCLUDE HTTP://ARCHIVE.SALON.COM/ENT/FEATURE/2001/04/30/CLEAR_CHANNEL/ AND HTTP://WWW.WSWS.ORG/ARTICLES/2003/APR2003/MEDI-A17_PRN.SHTML)
D: Well that’s — that — that’s why — that’s one of the reasons we — we do “Ghostly Talk” in the first place — over a year ago, Scott and I were ghost hunting and things like that and I said, “What” — because I would spend literally all night some nights — probably two or three nights a week just combing the Internet for ghost stories and pictures of ghosts and, you know, that kind of thing. And — and just to — to, you know, help quench my thirst for knowledge. And so then I started ghost hunting and — and I happened to start ghost hunting a(re) — around the same time Scott did. And all of a sudden I — I’m like, “Well why don’t we do like a radio show?”
S: (small laugh)
D: So we did. And we just said, “Okay, we’ll put it together.” So we did it and now we’re like, no, on “Zero Point Radio.” Thousands of people who listen every — every week.
S: Yeah, we — we never thought it would ever come to this.
D: No, never.
Q: Well it —
D: But — but we — we do it just because this is our hobby. This is —
D: — what we do when we are not at work.
D: . . . I mean this is just how it works. This is what we do. (“AND”)
Q: Yeah. Yeah. (“IT”)
D: It’s fun.
Q: Yeah, and you don’t have an agenda, which is so great.
D: And that’s — yeah, that’s another thing. We don’t have an agenda. Although we do have our own beliefs.
D: So, you know —
Q: There’s a big difference, though.
D: Which is really good because we’re — we’re actually — a lot of — I wouldn’t have thought of probably half of the stuff that — that I think about. If — if we weren’t doing “Ghostly Talk” because we — we’re challenged every week. Come up with a topic.
D: You know. And then study the topic enough to be able to talk about it or at least, you know, take calls about it.
Q: Well — and also even since my experience I’ve always continued reading new books (“ON”) in the field. I’ve con(tinued) — you know, to — to try to learn more and more and more.
D: Oh definitely.
Q: In fact, I think I’ll mention that when we go back on because I (or “CAUSE I”) — because I want people to realize that — especially when you listen to “Coast to Coast,” you don’t really get as much from some of those interviews as you do from some of the books you can find.
S: Like slam George Noory for us. That would be . . .
D: No. Don’t slam George Noory.
Q: I don’t have to slam George Noory.
D: He does it himself, I know. “You have been visited — ”
S: No, actually the funniest thing — I told you about this, Doug. The funniest thing I ever saw about George Noory. I go to this website called Fark — fark.com and all it really is, is a series — like all it is — it’s like — it’s a blog kind of site. But the guy just finds cool news articles and puts them up on the site. And you visit the article and read it, right?
W: Time to go back.
D: Oh. Thirty-five seconds.
S: Hey, well I’ll tell you about it later.
S: We’ve got to go. Hang on for a minute. Hang on.
D: Remember your mic’s going to be hot. (pause)
S: Why? (pause) Alright.
D: We’re back from break.
S: (small laugh)
D: And we have — we are very, very fortunate to have Mark Russell Bell on the telephone with us.
S: And he liked it so much, he’s going to stay a little longer.
D: Yeah. Isn’t that awesome?
Q: Trying to —
S: So . . .
D: Yeah. We’ve been talking about his — so far, his development up to, you know, like what he’s been doing. And he describes it in wonderful detail — all of the stuff about Oklahoma, his first —
D: — the — the case that he — he actually went there to investigate. And parallels between the different cases that he’s seen and — and read about. And it’s fascinating stuff. And, Mark, is this all poltergeist-related kind of thing or did — do you study, I mean, other things as well? Because I — I — you must — you said you would have this thirst for knowledge of everything paranormal. Then —
Q: Well ‘poltergeist’ is a loaded word, really. (X) There was this special that featured the family in Centrahoma called “Ghosts, Mediums, Psychics: Put To The Test.” And really they were the ones who were interested in finding poltergeist phenomena. The family really found more alien aspects to the haunting presence (“I[N]”) in their house and, of course, what some people define as a poltergeist others would see as an Angelic Presence. I mean it’s really whatever (“WW”) word someone chooses. (“AS”) As we were talking during the break, my case has — has been so long and with so many different elements that it’s hard to boil it down to just an interview show. And I’ve always continued reading interesting books trying to expand my own awareness. Just to give you an — (“A”) a sample of how Spirit cooperates (with) you when you’re — when you’re searching, I (or “I”) — when I was at this expo recently here in Los Angeles, my booth was right across the booth for another author. (X) And her name was Victoria Jennings. And I — of course, I gave her a copy of my book and she gave me a copy of her book. Well her book is entitled God As Mother — A True Story of the Search for Mystic Christianity & Origins of the Soul. And it ends up being about the wife of Manly Palmer Hall and, of course, I have attended the Philosophical Research (Society) Library where Manly (X) was the founder. (X) And this book basically at one point attempts to describe the birth of God so I mean there’s some unusual subjects (X) that you can find (“THAT YOU CAN”) you don’t think will actually be addressed in a book but yet there are people who have had (“SOME”) a range of experiences that have led them on a very specific path as we each have had. One other book I recently read that I found very intriguing because I only have my own experiences to draw upon in some respects, especially where what people call ‘the paranormal’ is concerned, featuring ghosts and what-have-you. (“BUT”) There is a book called The — The Airmen Who Would Not Die by the author of The Ghost of Flight 401, John Fuller —
Q: — that dealt a lot with mediumship. Just to give you a sample, I turn to page 75 and it says:
Q: And at one point one of the entities she channeled described (X) what happens — where you go after you die, at least what this spirit experienced. And that’s on page 138 and just to give you an example the spirit said, channeling through the medium:
Q: — room. And so they gave me this beautiful room. I thought, “Oh my gosh, this is (X) great. Why didn’t you just give this to me in the first place?” I mean it seemed liked it was — it had a good view, all of the furniture looked brand new. Well, anyway, so I go to sleep that night and I relive what seemed to be a murder that took place in the room.
Q: To the — to the point where I wake up by falling against the floor.
Q: And I don’t even — I don’t have a vivid memory of it. I just remember thinking, “Oh great, they put me in the haunted room” at the time. And there were some, also, bizarre things I experienced on that trip. Like I — once when I was at Caesar’s Palace, I saw this one Blackjack table where the man and woman had hundreds of black chips. And every time they played they won. And since then, of course, (“I”) I — I gather that most of the games are crooked or rigged anyway but you always do find these puzzling inconsistencies because in this case there definitely was something paranormal going on. I mean it obviously wasn’t rigged because the couple was making thousands upon thousands of dollars and couldn’t believe their eyes.
D: They were un — unexpectedly beating the odds.
Q: And I was telling myself at the time, “Oh they’re a plant. They’re a plant by the management. Come on.”
Q: But then after my experience in Oklahoma, now when I look back at my experiences I really see how I was explaining away my experiences.
Q: There were a lot more, as I try to describe them in my — in my book. And so — now EVP did play a big part of my experiences because when I came home to Los Angeles and listened to the interview tapes there were some very prominent spirit messages. In fact, in my first — (“IN THE”) the first book, my first edition of the paperback, I never really even called them EVP. I just called them spirit messages and it was brief bits of words and sentences (“THAT”) that I heard that we hadn’t heard at the time. Some of them were very, very obvious. And so this led me to go back and look at other of my tapes. For example, I still had a lot that I had made when I was working at Paramount Pictures — (“I WAS THE”) the staff writer in the publicity department so I had interviews with a lot of filmmakers. And, again, I heard the EVP and unattributed sounds. Because before, I realized, when you hear these unattributed sounds and pieces of words and sentences, your mind just filters them out automatically. You don’t really listen (“THAT”) that carefully. But after my experience I began listening very carefully. And I purchased a Dictaphone transcription machine that really helped me to hear clearly some of the spirit messages. And since then, of course, I even have become discerning where people in the middle of a sentence sometimes you’ll hear the word “no” — well on radio interviews I would hear people saying no in the middle of their sentence and I thought, “What is going on?” And after careful study I do believe that some of it is electronic voice phenomena and other times it’s the people uttering words unconsciously or subconsciously or Superconsciously. (“WHATEV”) I mean they all really talk about the same Force that’s at work here. And I hear it all the time and I know that there are some talkshow hosts who are aware of this going on; however, you never really hear it discussed. An(d) I — for reasons I really (“WOULD”) — I don’t really want to speculate on because there’s different possibilities. I know one host, Whitley Strieber, had mentioned hearing EVP on his own show. And — (“BUT I”) I mean I think it’s a very, very prominent phenomena.
D: I absolutely adore Whitley Strieber.
S: As do I.
D: And I miss “Dreamland” so much my head hurts.
Q: Well I —
D: (small laugh)
Q: Well my experience wasn’t a good one with him, unfortunately. Simply — I have my conversations with him in my transcripts at my website under “Radio Interview Transcripts” and I also have my phone calls to call-in shows. And, for example, he published a book about an angel Michael experience.
D: I have a feeling we’re going to get transcripted.
S: Are we going to get transcripted too?
Q: Of course. I add a(ll) — I have all of my interviews at the website. (“EVERY”) You’re number 18.
S: You have to take that out. Ready? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha . . .
D: Yeah. Ha ha ha ha. We’ll — we’ll try — we’ll try and pronounce things much clearer —
D: — now that we know —
Q: Oh no —
S: Even got a cold right now. You know, I can’t speak clearly.
Q: It can — it can be hard but also now usually I do hear EVP on my own interviews. And, of course, these are all words that normally (X) people just — they just think that it’s (“THE TWO”) the people speaking.
D: Well I don’t know if — if this is directly related. I — I don’t think it is but it’s — it’s an interesting sideline.
D: Right here on “Zero Point Radio,” which is — that’s the — the network that carries us live. (“YEAH”) They have “The David John Oates Show.” And that is about —
S: The —
D: The whole show is about people in their normal everyday conversation or he likes to also pick on —
S: You know.
D: — political leaders and — and things like that as well because they’re more interesting I guess. And what he does is he takes their — what they’re saying and plays it backwards through his computer. And you can actually hear sentences that sometimes reinforce what the person is saying and sometimes directly contradicts what the person is saying. And sometimes they have nothing to do with what the person is saying at all. But — but it — it’s — that’s a — an extreme — as a matter of fact, I — I happen to be fortunate enough to hear David John Oates when he was a guest on Clyde Lewis’s “Ground Zero” —
D: — which is also aired on “Zero Point Radio.” And that was the most active night in the “Zero Point Radio” chatroom because both of those like powerful people, you know — I mean there — there was — there was Clyde Lewis and David John Oates. And, you know, the (or “THE”) — talk about an — a — what — what an awesome show.
D: And — and they — they played for us some of that — some of that stuff. But that’s a little bit different than what you hear evidently because you’re not — your brain — do — do you think your brain is picking up what they’re saying and then playing it frontwards and backwards and you can hear things that — that aren’t — that — that weren’t meant to be there or — or are you thinking that this is completely different like an undertone of what’s going on?
Q: It’s just as if — as there is reverse speech, there is a secondary forward speech associated with electronic voice phenomena. In fact, Michael Goodspeed did arrange for me to be a guest on the show you were talking about (“IT”) from when it was originating from Australia. And I have that transcript at the website too.
D: Oh you — you’ve spoken with David John Oates?
Q: Yes, I — I have; however, the interview was cut short because — well this is what he said. He said that his telephone battery was dying.
D: Oh, okay.
Q: Unfortunately, I — I don’t really know what went on there but —
D: That won’t happen here.
S: We don’t do that here.
D: Although I have to say I did — I did accidentally kick the cord out once on . . .
S: Yeah . . . one of our guests.
D: But that’s —
S: We’ll give you all the time you need here.
D: Yeah. You — you’re more than welcome here.
S: (small laugh)
D: And I’m sure that David had reasons and — and I’m positive that it — that he — he really was having technical difficulties because he’s a phenomenal person. I — I can’t imagine him —
Q: Well —
D: — doing anything untoward.
Q: Well I ended up talking a good — (“AA”) for some — portion longer of the hour with Michael Goodspeed because he called me back after the show ended. And that was a very interesting conversation.
D: Well, you know, I — I — I really believe that things happen for a reason. A lot of things. (“WHAT”) Well, you know, the building blocks of your life and then — and then the — the — the — the parallels that you can draw just by, you know, doing things like simply reading signs and paying attention to the conversations around you.
D: You — you learn a heck of a lot more about the other things — many things in your life. They all draw together eventually. And I think that things happen for a reason and, perhaps, that was meant to happen.
Q: Well um (X) finding parallels really is a — is one of the main topics of my book because I always had a very analytical mind. For example, when I was reading this book about The Airmen (“WHO”) Who Would Not Die and there was all that about “control,” it reminded me (“THE”) of a play. Have you ever seen “Starlight Express”?
S: The play?
S: I know — I — I actually I have a friend who (“DID”) — was part of that play but I never saw it, though.
Q: Well it was an Andrew Lloyd Webber musical but I thought it was a very effective Pop culture look at the differenti(ation) — (“I[F]”) if you want to differentiate Christ and God or Christ Conciousness and God, this play had really interesting metaphors of ‘Starlight Express,’ of course, for God; but then there was also ‘Control’ which seemed to be a very striking metaphor for Christ Consciousness. (X) Now I think that there are some interesting characters, much like there were in “Cats.” And — I mean I — I make fun in my book that I sort of sympathize with Grizabella the glamour puss.
Q: At least in a supernatural way. But I think — I think in “Starlight Express” I would have to identify not with ‘Control’ because that’s Mighael but I would — so I guess the sleeping car because the sleeping car befriends everyone who comes the sleeping car’s way. So I — I mean it’s always interesting to find characters that you identify with in these different works that co(me) — all come from the Superconscious, anyway.
D: Well I have a feeling that that’s part of the, you know — I mean part of the creative process is to — is to load your story with, you know, characters and — and things that people can identify with merely because that’s what will draw them in and — and capture their interest. But — but also you’re — you’re right. In — in a metaphorical Higher Self kind of way, you know, you can learn from that and — and grow with it.
Q: I think it —
D: So it’s — it’s an important part of the creative process.
Q: Yeah, I think also you can do that in terms of various religious books. I think by comparing, (“LIKE”) for example, Jesus with other characters from other religions, you do — you can learn more about the specific figures. I know the Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that Michael is the true Son of God and not Jesus; however, in my own experience you can see how easily the two can become confused — Jesus and the Christ Consciousness.
Q: So I — I’ve always — (X) you know, re(ading) — I always — like I’ve read The Koran (mispronunciation) — The Koran and the Bhagavad-Gita. (“AN I”) It’s interesting to find parallels between some of the stories and metaphors in these holy books and parallels within the Bible — and even what was taken out of the Bible too or left out I should say, (“IF”) if you’re familiar with some of the other Gnostic books and what-have-you.
D: Speaking of what was left out of the Bible, I’ve heard this rumor — and it’s not really a rumor. It’s just probably plastered all over your website, which by the way d(id) — let’s — let’s give your actual website first. Then, I’ll tell you what I was thinking. What’s your website?
Q: testament dot org.
D: testament dot org.
D: Now you actually have come up with or delivered upon the world three new — wha(t) — commandments.
S: The ten commandments.
D: Is — is that — is that what I — have I heard that correctly or —
Q: Well what happened is the Angel Mighael, of course (“IS”) was associated with the burning bush and the commandments and Moses. And when I realized that what people called the poltergeist was actually an Angel, I realized that this Angel was communicating to me what I construed to be commandments. For example: my television once went on and there was a commercial saying “Love is the only religion.” And then the television went off. So, obviously, the same Angel was still (X “HELP ME”) — still in a commandment or helpful frame of mind, trying to help us with our moral(ity) — moral issues. Another time, I had an experience where two nights I had an eye — I mean an ant bite me below each of my different eyes. This was before and after I was thinking about the commandment “An eye for an eye.”
Q: And plus (X X) like when I would turn on the radio and you’d hear part of a song. I do this from time to time in the book. And there was one time I turned on the radio and the song lyrics were “Shouldn’t have took more than you gave.” And so I was getting these — some of these messages in many different ways and I realized that they, in fact, were commandments. In fact, sometimes I would say something like, “A new commandment is Thou Shalt Not Cover Up” and then there was a spirit message saying “PARTICIPATE” within that sentence. (X) So at one point I did put out a news release trying to get publicity for the book which wasn’t very successful. I put out a news release on PR Newswire, which was a mistake because it’s really more of a corporate newswire service but it was the one I had worked with when I was at Paramount.
Q: And I put out a news release about the three new commandments. I also took out an ad — a full-page ad in Daily Variety with my news release including this commandment so all Hollywood really sort of ignored that. (X) It did have my website address, obviously. But since then, my commandments have really grown to a section of the New Testament side of the website called “Spiritual Advice,” where I just print the various sentences, including the first commandments as spiritual advice. The most recent spiritual advice that I added is “There is only one country” because of all — because of all the agendas and spin control (“IN”) about the war and what-have-you. (“THAT”) People can really forget that countries and companies really are just names on paper. They’re there to help people in positions of authority and power—or what they think is power—or wealth (“KEEP IT”) keep their —
Q: — power, wealth and money. And I mean so there really is only one country. (X) And that, of course, is God’s. And I might add that one of the films I worked with at Paramount was a “Star Trek” film and it had that as part of its title: (“THE”) “The —” what is it? — the unknown country or “Undiscovered Country.”
D: Undiscovered, yeah.
Q: Yeah. So (or “SO”) there’s (“LOTS OF TH[INGS]”) interesting parallels in the films I worked on and my own experiences before and after going to Oklahoma. I talk about, for example, my experience on the movie “Clueless,” which involved a compu(ter) —
D: That had to be hilarious — doing that movie.
S: (small laugh)
D: But yeah?
Q: Yeah, I — I — what happened (“WW”) was I had did a draft of the press kit and I was going to change it into the computer at Paramount. In the Paramount offices. And it wouldn’t take the file. It seemed like the disk was corrupt and even after retyping it several times I could never transfer the file from (“ANY”) — from even a computer in the photo department to the other computers (“IN”) within the department because there really wasn’t a server at that time. They weren’t using a server. So I was the one, in fact, who was ‘clueless’ and this was —
Q: — how I found that out.
D: Oh my. Well these movies — three — these three commandments, that — that was a — that was mostly a — a marketing kind of thing for —
Q: No, well — no, I was experiencing — I mean I was exper(iencing) — I knew that they were commandments. As I said on one of my other radio interviews that people just don’t take the word commandment seriously. So I’ve stopped really calling them commandments.
D: And you call them advice?
Q: Spiritual advice.
D: Well I — I think that that’s more — that’s much more modern sounding because people tend to — even — even with the ten commandments, my goodness.
Q: Well there were some commandments in the Bible that really weren’t on that list of ten commandments.
D: Oh yeah?
Q: So obviously “An eye for an eye” is one of them.
Q: And I, myself, had never really considered that issue before my experience. But when you really think about it, the meaning is that the punishment should fit the crime and if you really take it (“I[T]”) — take forgiveness and not — not employing capital punishment to the worst extent, the only people left alive at some point will be murderers.
D: Yeah, right. Because they don’t listen to that. Yeah.
Q: So — and I — I think — I think Spirit would tell you what is and is not acceptable. (“I”) So (“WHEN OU”) when (“I — I”) — the more I think about it, “An eye for an eye” doesn’t really mean ‘well if you accidentally gouge out somebody’s eye then yours too must be taken out.’
D: Well then there goes yours? (“NO IT”)
Q: It — it needed — it just means that the punishment should fit the crime and, of course, murder and killing is so glamorized in our culture, our Hollywood culture, that it’s good to know in advance what is and is not acceptable because if you read enough books like me, you know that those involved in murder frequently receive visits from the people they kill after they’re dead.
Q: So and these — (X) these messages are not really being delivered that much in — in the mainstream media. (“UM”)
D: But the — the ones that — the ones that you had mentioned specifically — the — the “Love is the only true religion,” things like that — well that, that particular one I have to say is — I’ve heard that so many times like (or “LIKE” “IN THE”) — or — or at least parallels — I’ve drawn parallels to — to other things that I was doing. For example, not — not even 12 hours ago I was on the computer with Will at — at — we were sitting for Lisa last night and, sure enough, we run across this Maitreya (X “MY”) of some kind. I don’t know. Maitreya is evidently some ascended master that gets channeled by this lady in New Zealand or Australia.