JOURNAL — TAPE #752, SIDE #2
Q: Mark Russell Bell
Z: Zahi Hawass of TV special “Pyramids Live: Secret Chambers Revealed”
L: Laura Greene, co-host
S: Reiner Stottleman, participant
M: Mark Lehner, participant
J: Jay Schadler, co-host
N: special narration
G: George Noory, host of “Coast to Coast AM” radio show
H: James Hurtak, guest on “Coast to Coast AM”
R: Ross Mitchell, “Coast to Coast AM” taped announcement
Z: . . . that the south shaft functioned. (X) It’s a symbolic (X) corridor (X) —
Z: — for the soul of the king (X) as the sun god Ra is symbolically in the mind of the Egyptian that the soul of the king will go through that shaft. (X) The northern one — (X) it’s also a model (X) corridor for the king (X) as (X) the god Horus —
Z: — to join the northern stars. (X)
L: (taped portion) The role of the shafts must have been very important because building them was in(X)credibly diffi(X)cult. They weren’t just drilled through the finished pyramid. As we’ve seen, (X) they were carefully laid out as the pyramid (X) went up layer by layer. So why did the king need special shafts? Why (X) couldn’t his soul simply (X) go down the Grand (X) Gallery and out the regular exit? (X) Egyptologist Reiner Stottleman thinks (X) the king (X) refused to.
S: This was very, very important. (X) We have it in the pyramid texts that the king says. “My (X) distaste (X) is to descend (X) into the Earth. (X) I, the king, ascend (X) directly to the sky.”
L: But if the king’s spirt went directly (X) from his burial chamber to the (X) sky, why then (X) go to all the trouble of building shafts for the Queen’s (X) Chamber, where the king was never even buried? (X) The answer may be linked (X) to magic. (X) Mark Lehner thinks the Queen’s Chamber was a dummy chamber, a sealed room inhabited only by the (X) king’s (X) soul. But the (X) soul would need (X) to move out of the pyramid to the heavens. So wouldn’t a stone door pose a problem?
M: A blocked passage would be no problem for a (X) king’s soul. It didn’t have to be opened for the king to ascend. The principle means of (X) going into the other world in any normal Egyptian (X) tomb was what we call a false door, a dummy door. But when they made a (X) simulated door out of stone, then it’s magical and then it can commune with another world.
L: But if the blocking stone is a kind of magi(X)cal false door, why does it ap(X)pear to have han(X)dles?
S: These copper fit(X)tings are magical instruments which the king can take was s(o) — soul of the king can take when it (X) ascends. It uses them to open these blocks and pass through the stones to the sky.
L: Magic was essential to Egyptian rituals and Khufu’s burial (X) chamber must have contained (X) all sorts of papyrus scrolls with magical writings: prayers to help him on his way to (X) the heavens. (X) But what about behind the (X) stone? (X)
W: Might be possible that there is, let’s say, a papyrus scroll or something behind these doors. (X) There’s no place for (X) much more.
L: The mystery of the se(X)cret shaft remains as tantal(X)izing as ever. (end of taped portion)
L: So does the shaft (X) continue or is there something else back there? Don’t (X) go away. Coming up, cameras are poised to see through the (X) stone (X) door. Don’t miss it when "National Geographic" continues.
( . . . )
N: And now “Egypt Live: Secret Chambers Revealed” (X) continues.
L: We’re back inside the (X) Queen’s Chamber. This really is the moment of truth, isn’t it, Zahi? What we’ve (X) all been waiting for. The camera is now lined up (X) against that three-quarters of an inch hole in the stone door. We are now going to follow its progress through the hole with that camera there and we’re going to find out if and what is behind that stone door. Let’s have a look at what’s happening. Let’s see. (X) Okay, the lights are on. You can see the camera making its (X) steady progress towards the hole there. Now Zahi, talk us (X) through what’s happening.
Z: Just the (X) camera is getting in the hole now but I can’t see anything. (X)
L: Okay. Now — oh my goodness, look at that. (gasps)
Z: What’s this?
L: We’re hearing shrieks inside here, I’ve got to tell you. This (X) team of archaeologists has been waiting for this moment (X) for (X) months and months. (X X) Incredibly exciting! What are we seeing, Zahi?
Z: We saw — (X) can see another sealed door.
L: Another sealed door?
L: And what are these markings on the door?
Z: It’s . . .
L: There seems to be black markings. Was that a —
Z: . . . (X) cracks. It’s (X) cracks.
Z: In another sealed (X) door. And that is —
L: Oh my goodness.
Z: — it’s another space. Another sealed door. (X) But it looks to me we have a discovery.
L: Another discovery?
Z: And . . .
L: Now can we see anything on the floor there? What’s happening here? It (X) looks like that is what you say — is a (X) door. Not a dead end.
Z: It is — it is some — look (X) at this hole underneath.
Z: That’s really — is all though it.
L: Just where you can see —
Z: — but that’s — looks to me that’s sealing something. We are here in front of a discovery. (X)
L: This is in(X)credible.
Z: And (X) I am really happy that we got this. We found a space. We found (X) another sealed (X) chamber.
L: This is incredible. Is this the first time a space has been found —
Z: It is and —
L: — within the Great Pyramid, within 130 years?
Z: I know but, Laura, this is (X) very important, (X) this is something I’m very proud that finally we revealed the first (X) mystery of the Great Pyramid of Khufu. (X)
L: The question is what (X) happens next?
Z: Next we’ll study this. We’ll find out how (X) can we reveal more se(X)crets of the Pyramids. But this is very important that what you are showing now, it shows (X) the amazing — those people, the great Egyptians.
L: Do we have any i(X)dea what that door might be for?
Z: We don’t.
L: Why there would be two doors?
Z: We — this is — I do not know but it seems there is (X) something important is hidden here. (X)
L: Obviously, the investigation (X) is going to have to continue and —
Z: It will continue.
L: — you know, we’ll be bringing you more information (X) as "National Geographic" finds it out but, well, we’re actually going to have to say good-bye now from the Queen’s Chamber.
Z: Laura, good luck. (X) You did a (X) great job.
L: Thank you. You too.
L: We’re handing — handing back over to Jay. Bye-bye.
Z: Okay. (X)
J: What a night, huh? Already the work (X) of recording and analyzing what was found here has be(X)gun at the site. And we should tell you that from really the moment this project was (X) conceived, everyone here at National Geographic has understood that we were involved in a (X) kind of 21st Century experiment. A blending of hard science and (X) live television. They can make strange bedfellows and no one knows that better than us. After (X) all, science demands patience. Television (X) craves experience. Still, both are seeking a (X) kind of revelation — to reveal what is hidden beneath the surface of things. And, to be honest, I suspect that no one’s (X) heart beats faster at the moment of discovery than the scientist’s. If we have managed tonight to give all of you at home (X) a glimpse into that world, into that moment when the unknown becomes known, then we’ll (X) consider it a success. (X) Tonight we still stand on sacred ground, home to the world’s first great (X) civilization. Now for Laura and Dr. Hawass and everyone here at National (X) Geographic, I’m Jay Schadler. (X) Good night from the Giza Plateau and the (X) great pyramids.
Q: (speaking into tape recorder) I thought I saw a face in that second door. And you can’t tell me that they didn’t check before this horrendously bad special. What a cheat.
( . . . )
Q: So now it’s Tuesday, 3:15. I’m going to visit Ellen at the hospital now. The doctor hasn’t seen her yet so I don’t know if she’s going to be released today or not. Probably not. Anyway, on the way home from the gym today, I saw another 666 license plate and I wrote it down. Let me just get it out of my gym bag. It was a metallic-colored Sentra: 4MPT666. I was thinking about the special last night. And, actually, in terms of the face, one of the callers on “Coast to Coast” during the first hour had mentioned the face as well. But really for me it was really just the left — I guess it would be the right eye (facing the camera). The right eye was really what I saw. Anyway, I should also mention that today I saw another pest control truck. But there are also encouraging synchronicity sights, such as one of the Frito Lay trucks that I often see and I saw a “forgiven” sticker with a little dove. (“AND IT”) The same car also had a Jesucristo bumper sticker. I don’t remember what it said in Spanish. Anyway.
( . . . )
Q: Well I just got home. Dr. Singh hadn’t come by yet. It’s about 5:15 now. Her vital signs are good except she still has a cough. Michael had called her earlier and said he was going to try to stop by after his meeting at NBC but he ended up not showing up. That’s the second or third time they’ve done it since she’s been in the hospital this time.
( . . . )
Q: Well I guess I have to apologize. I just had a call from Michael and Steve. They’re on their way to the hospital. It’s 5:30. So I guess they decided to go visit after all. That was a long meeting.
( . . . )
Q: So I’ve decided to go ahead and share with you the first hour of “Coast to Coast AM” last night regarding the Egypt special. There are some interesting comments. And the more I think about it, the more profound I find the experience was. For the light to go past the door into a chamber where a spirit eye was there. I’m sure a lot of people will just deny or suppress their own vision of this eye because they don’t understand how it could be so. But for those who do, I think the meaning is obvious.
( . . . )
G: And good morning, good evening wherever you may be across the country, around the world. I’m George Noory in for Art Bell. This is “Coast to Coast AM.” What a night ho ho ho. Well they did it, didn’t they? They finally did it. They entered one of the shafts of the Great Pyramid and we saw it live on television. What did you think about it? The little tiny pyramid rover—took a couple hours—slowly crept down that shaft. They’d already pre-drilled the door as Christopher Dunn had predicted in last night’s show. It was about 3.25 inches thick. They drilled a hole through it. They were able to get that little fibreoptic camera through the hole. And what did we see? I was disappointed. I thought the television production was great. The re-enaction was good. All that was nice. They did a great job. They really did. But the end result was disappointing. Quite frankly, Dr. Hawass says that what we saw was another wall and another door in a chamber. I didn’t see that. I just saw a wall that was old and cracking. But what do I know? Ha ha, but in a moment my guest will be Dr. James Hurtak. We will talk about this incredible find maybe. And also this hour if you witnessed the event I’d like to get your reaction to what you saw so don’t touch your dial. I’m George Noory and this is “Coast to Coast AM.” (commercials) Welcome back to “Coast to Coast.” I’m George Noory. Social scientist and futurist Dr. James Hurtak is the president of the International Academy for Future Science and a remote sensing specialist. He was a former professor at California State University Northridge and California State University Los Angeles. He is the director of the Lasertec in Brazil — once was — which developed lasers and studies of remote sensing for environmental assessment of the flora and fauna in the Amazon — he did a great job with that, by the way. He also studied the area of the Giza in the North African continent — (“WHICH”) has revealed vast environmental change. In 1997 Dr. Hurtak went to Egypt with a team of remote sensing specialists and explorers, and together with the team discovered the first evidence of the so-called Osiris tomb a hundred feet below the Giza plateau. He has recently worked with an expedition that explored the massive wall that is currently being constructed around the Giza area. We’re going to talk about that. In addition, he recently produced a CD-rom that takes the very fantastic virtual Giza tour through the Pyramids using actual 3-D scale models and has won two awards for art and graphics. And by the way, you can get some more information on Dr. Hurtak, his book The Keys of Enoch and also link right up with his website by going to Art Bell’s website, “Program,” “Tonight’s Guest,” click right on and you’ll see exactly what I’m talking about. Dr. Hurtak, welcome to “Coast to Coast.” Good to have you with us.
H: Yes, good morning to you, Art. It’s great to be on this wonderful program.
G: Did you have an opportunity to watch the television special tonight?
H: Yes, I did. I know Dr. Mark Lehner. I highly respect his impeccable credentials. I know Dr. Zahi Hawass and many of the other speakers you’ve had on recent times regarding this epic event which in the long run turned out to be more of a cosmic turn-off for those who anticipated, as it were —
G: (laughs) Yes.
H: — the grand synthesis coming through this remarkable robotic rover.
G: It was building up, Dr., to something I think that could have been just absolutely remarkable and it was a letdown. You know, when it popped through. I merely saw in my mind just another wall with some cracks in it. (“UH”) You know, Dr. Hawass was jumping up and down and he seemed very excited, claiming there’s another door there. I didn’t see another door. Did you?
H: I saw what appeared to be the additional chamber, if there is one. It was very difficult with the lighting and the probe itself to see any of the details on the wall, which was of course the big subject of the climax of the two hour special. I was hoping that there might have been the outline of the form of Isis, who represents the female figure of creation aligned of course with this great star shaft to the Queen’s Chamber. We would have anticipated, perhaps, finding an ancient scroll like Dr. Reiner Stottleman of the German team suggested but I think the significance here is in the incredible mathematics of the Great Pyramid. All of it’s hidden chambers, the star shafts, all of which show something that is truly magnificent in terms of what the ancient world could construct and well is considered the seventh wonder of the ancient world with some scholars of the Bible feel like Jeremiah in Chapter 32. This is one of the great signs and wonders of antiquity. One hopes to feel that the greater scenario here is not so much the wall connected with the shaft but, as I have indicated on my website, this great massive wall that’s being built around the Giza Plateau as we talk tonight . . .
G: Well let’s talk about that in a second because I want to find out about that wall but I was a little disappointed with Dr. Hawass when he jumped up and down and said, ‘This will prove to these skeptics who keep talking about lost civilizations and the fact that these pyramids were not built by Egyptians and all these other theories.’ And to me, he was a little—I don’t know—I don’t think he had the grounds to jump up and say that based on what we saw tonight. Do you?
H: I agree with you, given the fact that we were there in the mid-’90s with technology and his reticence to go ahead with some of the technology and some of the experiments even by the French and Japanese explorers would suggest there’s more (“THERE”) than meets the eye. For example in ’87 Professor Yoshimura from Japan had used electro-magnetic wave methods to explore the corridors leading up to the Queen’s Chamber and underneath the horizontal passageway to the Queen’s Chamber had detected some type of a cavity down about one to two meters. Also behind the northern wall of the Queen’s Chamber, another cavity was detected that would be in something on the order of three to four meters so clearly other scientific teams have hinted that there is much more to the labyrinth of structures and rooms that comprise the Great Pyramid. Particularly from the center part of the structure itself.
G: Well on a one to ten with Geraldo Rivera’s probe of Al Capone’s vaults several years ago being a two, what would you give tonight’s effort?
H: I would give it a four in terms of the scientific and spiritual imagination. I think the wonderful opportunity here to bring out some of the other aspects of what is going on there at the Giza Plateau would have been a great inspiration to younger people. And I don’t want to cut short the great work that Mark Lehner and his team from Harvard and others are doing behind the scenes. I feel that this is just the tip of a great story yet to —
H: — break in other directions. So I don’t want to throw out the baby with the bath water. I just feel, being that I’ve been underneath the Giza Plateau some 33-plus meters with ground penetrating radar seeing the magnificent rooms and structures beneath the Giza Plateau, I know there’s more to be found and perhaps in the not-too-distant future we will uncover slightly to the north at the other side of Cairo the ancient structure of the City of the Sun, what the Greeks called Heliopolis, that might have the great library of records in antiquity that everybody’s been looking for and anticipating for many, many years.
G: That would be exciting. Let’s talk a little bit about the massive wall that’s being constructed around the Giza area. Tell me about that.
H: Well what we should keep in mind is that the Giza Plateau is very, very large. The Great Pyramid itself is something like 13 acres of gigantic building blocks, each weighing approximately 2.5 tons apiece. And if we can keep in our mind’s eye a bird’s eye-view of the three pyramids looking down from space, the wall that’s being built would be on the eastern side — would run along an area that was formerly called the great stand for the light show in that area of the Sphinx.
G: Yeah, I remember that.
H: The Sphinx enclosed area. And as we extend this wall, which is approximately ten feet high in terms of pre-fabric rocks and steel structures imbedded within. And add to that an additional eight feet of wire mesh fence, we’re up to about 18 feet of a massive wall complex that runs all the way along the east side. It could be on the order of some 20 to 30 kilometers to the military complex that lays just south southeast of Giza proper.
G: That’s a pretty good size wall.
H: Now along with this there is a feeling by many who’ve been at the Giza site that there will be military sentries posted every so many yards.
H: And there’s the general feeling that this may be due to some major, major excavation that will be underway. And that this will be a psychological and a sociological barrier to the local people who might wander on to the site. So if this was simply an act of finding an empty room, an act of looking at traditional methods of Egyptology, why this big wall? Why this extravaganza that’s going on to build this massive, massive structure that even extends visibly on the south wall side about three-quarters of a mile away from the third or the smallest pyramid of the three.
G: Are they hiding something?
H: Well the plateau is honeycombed with chambers and there — I feel there’s more underground passageways that could conceivably show a much larger city complex than that indicated by Dr. Mark Lehner which was really for the workers on the order of six football fields.
G: Well but even so — even if it happened to be there, why build a wall around it other than maybe you just don’t want people stumbling around there?
H: If indeed there are incredible underground features such as the Arab historians have spoken of in the 9th, 10th Century and early Christian documents — Coptic documents such as Asclepius found in the Nag Hamadi text tell us that Egypt was once the home of the Gods, the signs and wonders of the ancient world, one would have to conceive of some type of protecting or road of protection or wall of protection pretty much like the Chinese have at Xi’an in China where they found 10,000 soldiers underground and they had to build this retaining wall for the visitors.
H: So I don’t want to project too much other than the fact that I think there’s much more going on than meets the eye and we’re sitting on really the upper part of a vast structure that could conceivably hold the documents of antiquity, that could fill in the missing pieces of history that could help us really rewrite the sociology and anthropology of the great religions in the Middle East and thereby be a point of reconciliation for all of these sectarian and religious movements that are at each other’s neck.
G: Do you think that because they say they have found another door in another chamber, we’re talking about some probe now that’s going to go in there and (“YOU KNOW”) there’s going to have to be a longer drill to get inside that other apparatus I think. (“I”)
H: I — that’s I think what we’re going to have to keep in mind is what the 19th Century Egyptologist Sir Flinders Petrie wrote. I’m just going to read a little bit of his statement made in 1888, well over a hundred years ago. He said: “The general floor plan of the Queen’s Chamber is hopelessly irregular, consisting mainly of rough core masonry. It has been built over with similar rough masonry which was afterwards stripped down to insert chamber walls.” Petrie was one of the great minds of the 19th Century and others like myself have felt that (“THE”) the pyramid as we know it, that was fashioned by these various skillful labor teams of masons and civil engineers is just the over-structure of a much earlier system that was there from a much earlier period.
G: About how many years back? 10,000 B.C.?
H: Well Robert Schoch, who I’ve worked with, from Boston University, feels (“AA”) the Sphinx is on the order of perhaps 7,000 year plus in antiquity and, privately, it indicated (“IT” “B”) much older. I’m saying that the whole area could be easily on the scale of from 10,000 years in age, which would push back maybe three or 4,000 years.
G: Alright. If that’s true and a lot of people have said that. They agree with you on that, Dr. Hurtak. What significance does that hold?
H: It means that we’re looking at a much earlier phase of evolution and a much earlier cycle of creativity. May I get some water for my — I’m just — (chokes)
G: Is it choking on ya?
H: I’ve just been to Africa where I was speaking at the World U.N. Summit . . .
G: Well that’s okay. You just have a few more moments to go here so keep pushing.
H: I wanted simply to say that the other part of the story which I think is just as important as what broke this week is Nature magazine for July 11th which speaks about the earliest known hominid out of Chad, what is to say out of Central Africa some seven million years ago the whole evolutionary story begins. And in my research with ground penetrating radar back in the early ’80s, we found a water drainage system from lower Egypt all the way across to Lake Chad, suggesting that evolution took place in a much earlier period of time when there was this massive water system that ran across northern Africa — huge paleo-drainage system along with civilization and a earlier point of development —
G: How many miles might that have been?
H: We’re looking at something running from (“THE”) the Red Sea area of the eastern part of Egypt across . . . Canal, Sand Sheet all the way through Lake Chad, and then from Lake Chad all the way down to the Niger delta, which would mean to the Atlantic. So this river system would be — have been the largest one of antiquity, much, much larger than anything we’ve known in terms of scope and size, which would account for why the Niger delta is the largest in the world and the present water systems cannot explain how that was created. So putting this together in terms of a large map of North Africa and Egypt, I would say the real story emerges between Chad — Lake Chad and Egypt at a much earlier period of history in stages producing a — a — a (or “A — A”) nomadic society that could write and could communicate and had all of the givens to, shall we say, give a pre-history to the Egyptian stage of history.
G: Well I was going to say do you think that that society (“E”) still includes Egyptians that we know it — that we know of?
H: Well I think if you look at the ancient records of historians in Egypt and Greece and Italy — for example, Diodorus of Sicily goes back some 33,000 years in terms of Egyptian antiquity; Manetho of Egypt speaks of 15,000 years of divine dynasties 7,000 to 9,000 years before . . . (Amensesse?). You have interesting historians that put the whole record of human development back thousands of years. And, what I feel, this is a bit of culture shock but you need to realize that Egypt was (or “WAS”) the place where the records of the ancient worlds were brought together. And I feel that that what we saw tonight —
G: Well, you know, Edgar Cayce said, Dr. Hurtak — Edgar Cayce that all the Hall of Records of every civilization at the base of the Sphinx. Thank you so much and, again, just link up with Art Bell’s website and you get some information on Dr. Hurtak, his very — the animation that he’s created out there on the Giza plateau is really something to look at. Now I want to hear from only those of you who saw the special tonight. Only those of you who saw the special. I want to get your reaction. I’m George Noory and this is “Coast to Coast AM.” (news, traffic, commercials)
I dream of rain I dream of gardens in the desert sand I wake in vain I dream of love as time runs through my head . . .
(“Desert Rose” performed by Sting)
R: To talk with George Noory, from east of the Rockies call (gives number), west of the Rockies call (gives number), and the wild card line is open at (gives number). First time callers may reach George at (gives number). International callers may access “Coast to Coast AM” at (gives number). That’s (gives number). And now, filling in for Art Bell, here’s George Noory.
G: At the top of the hour we’re going ghost hunting. And if you’re listening to the program tonight on WLS in Chicago, don’t touch your dial at all — Richard T. Crowe my guest. He’s devoted himself to uncovering Chicago’s rich history of hauntings, ghosts and other supernatural phenomena. He’s a product of the south side of Chicago. Now he takes tours — not just around Chicago. He goes all over the place: Salem, Massachusetts — that’s where they burn witches, by the way; New Orleans; Gettysburg. Ghosts. Hauntings. That’ll be at the top of the hour. Hey, the After Dark Newsletter has all kinds of stories that we talk about on “Coast to Coast.” I’m excited about this because this magazine in a year has just shown so much promise. It’s exciting to read. Fourteen issues for the price of twelve. If you haven’t subscribed to it yet, what are you waiting for? Here’s the phone number. (gives number) It’s called After Dark. It’s part of “Coast to Coast.” It’s just an extension of “Coast to Coast.” Art writes a column for it. It’s just a neat little newsletter/magazine. Okay? After Dark. (gives number) (commercials) I’ve got to read you this Email before we go to the calls. It says, “Dear Art and George, I’m sure you have heard of the curses placed on those who have discovered ancient tombs of the ancient Egyptians. If my memory serves me, one case in particular was the mysterious death of the archaeologist that discovered King Tut’s tomb. Now what if the curses are real? And what if something is found tonight in the exploration of the pyramid that will be aired live on TV?” This is an Email that came in before the show. “If everyone watching the show is considered by the protectors who placed those curses to be part of the discovery, would they be cursed? Just a thought. I guess we will know if millions of people die and then again maybe we won’t know if we are one of the people that watched the show. Just to be sure, I will have my shotgun by my front door just in case a mummy shows up to do me in.” (laughs) (“E”) Well let me tell you one thing. That curse, I believe, is true of King Tut’s tomb and the — (end of tape side)