INTERVIEW — TAPE #47, SIDE #1
Q: Mark Russell Bell
R: unidentified radio preacher
E: Elmer Green, Ph.D., psychophysiologist and founder of biofeedback
G: Bob Gale, Ph.D., C.E.O. of Science of Mind
C: Duane Cox, reverend, Science of Mind
D: Dean Brown, physicist/philosopher/mathematician/poet
U: James Ulmer (friend in California)
B: Michael Paul Russell (my brother in California)
Y: Andy Gevanthor (friend in California)
S: Blaine Stoddard (friend in California)
( . . . )
Q: Open your heart.
( . . . )
Q: Well, I think I understand finally why I haven’t been watching television or going to the movies — beyond my having so much else to do. When you stop watching television and going to the movies, it becomes very clear very quickly that everything is a movie.
( . . . )
Q: It’s Sunday morning, January 14th. The last thing I wanted to talk about this morning was cockroaches. (“SSS”) But I had a three cockroach morning, which in a way is good because He let me get them. If you know what I mean. And, where the third one is concerned, He got that one just to leave no doubt in my mind (“THAT”) this was a good sign. At least for me. Sometimes it really perturbs me to have to talk about cockroaches. I really wish Mighael could find another insect to cherish other than His beloved flies and cockroaches. (sighs) And, of course, I was listening to the radio, making breakfast, when this ‘small movie’ happened. The song that was on the radio was Gilbert O’Sullivan’s “Alone Again Naturally.” And, after killing the cockroaches, Tina Turner came on with “I don’t want to fight.” (sighs) That makes three of us.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I TAPED A LITTLE OF WHAT I WAS LISTENING TO ON THE RADIO WHILE DRIVING TO THE PRS.)
R: . . . And we do not worship You because we’re in a house, in a building, in a temple — where you do not dwell in temples made with hands. Thank God because the lord Jesus Christ came. We who know him as savior, now members of the body, and the Holy Spirit now dwells in us. May we be so mindful of that today. May we not be guilty of worshiping you only in form and ritual. But, oh Father God, may we be so aware that You are really present . . .
Q: As you can tell, it’s another working day in the life of — me. So I was trying to fulfill the messages on the tapes that I was transcribing last night and it said to take my hat off and look at it as I was leaving. So I did. I guess it’s like the director telling the actor what to do. (“E ED”) There was also a line about a butter knife. (“WHICH”) I sort of figured it out that, for some reason, I was meant to take some plastic utensils with me today to the PRS. I don’t know why. Because that’s what happened to me in Alhambra. All these people were coming up and giving me plastic utensils all the time. And at the end I thought they were doing this because they were the evil spirits and they wanted me to be caught with plastic utensils so people would think I was trying to hurt myself or something. So I threw them away. But now I guess that might have been a message preparing for me to take some plastic utensils with me today. (sigh) And right before I was leaving Don Levy called me so we’ll have lunch next week. I basically told him — you know, very quickly in passing what do you tell them? I mean there’s so much to tell them. So I just told him a few of the major things. (“AND”) One of the things I sort of told him was that all my life people around me have been dropping dead and having illnesses, which is true for everyone, I guess. (“BUT”) In a more heightened way with me. In fact, I remember when I was in (“THE”) sixth grade. One of my friends was named Christian and her sister dropped dead one night. She couldn’t breathe all of a sudden. So it’s the basic synchronicity — when your time is up and all that. But, since I’m at the center of the synchronicity, it just takes on a little bit of a more ominous tone. So I’m on my way to the Philosophical Research Society and it’s another beautiful day here in Southern California. By the way, the hat I chose is the one with alpha and omega on it. I figured that if I was to wear a hat and look at it, it should be one that had some kind of symbol on it so this is the one I chose. So what the hell. I’ll just wear it today. They all think I’m nuts anyway. What’s one more scary symbol?
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: PRIOR TO DR. DEAN BROWN’S LECTURE ENTITLED “THE EVOLUTION OF CONSCIOUSNESS: PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE,” OBADIAH EXPLAINED THAT BROWN, AS THE INITIAL MANLY P. HALL VISITING PROFESSOR FOR 1996, IS “SPENDING THIS YEAR WITH US IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF THIS CURRICULUM ON CONSCIOUSNESS AND COSMOLOGY THAT WILL BECOME A GRADUATE COURSE STARTING IN 1997.” OBADIAH INTRODUCED THREE OTHERS PARTICIPATING IN THE EFFORT AND REFERRED TO THEM AS HIS “SPIRITUAL HEROES”: ELMER GREEN AND SCIENCE OF MIND’S BOB GALE AND DUANE COX. THE THREE MEN EACH GAVE BRIEF REMARKS ON THIS OCCASION WHICH I DECIDED TO REPORT ABOUT IN MY BOOK. SOME PASSAGES WERE HARD TO HERE SO I ALSO LISTENED TO THE PRS TAPE, DISCOVERING WHAT SOUNDS LIKE A ‘SPIRIT MESSAGE’ ON THIS TAPE. OBADIAH ALSO MENTIONED THAT “THE MINISTERS OF THE CHURCH OF RELIGIOUS SCIENCE WILL BE COMING THROUGH THIS PROGRAM.”)
E: Well, thank you. This is unexpected. What I could say is unexpected as I plugged in. It is still my pleasure to be here and, actually, we were talking about future possibilities and I said that I would be honored to come back at some time in the future and participate in the activities of the Philosophical Research Society, which I would say has been a guiding light in this whole field of not just energy/medicine but of spirituality. Since Manly Hall began writing his books way, way, way back — I remember in the ’30s I was reading Manly Hall’s books and I was thinking, “Who is this genius, anyway?” Because he had that power to absorb all the information out of what we would now call the collective unconscious and put it right straight out. So it was like the mind of God became available to humans in a way. I mean that was in the old idea of being able to read the Akashic Record. It was pretty obvious that Manly Hall could do that. And he could put it into a form that we could all understand because he understood mythology. He understood everything that lay behind. From the spiritual level all the way down to the physical level. And so I don’t have much more to add except that it’s really a pleasure to be here.
( . . . )
G: This, too, was a bit of a surprise for me. I was just going to come and enjoy this but I will do that and, also, take this moment to express our enthusiasm, my enthusiasm and the entire Science of Mind organization’s enthusiasm about what you’re going to get a glimpse of today. And it is a glimpse of a new curriculum, a new pathway of study in consciousness and cosmology. Those of us that have looked at what Obadiah and Dean have put together are excited. And it’s a curriculum, a program that you’ll have the opportunity to hear about today and be exposed to in the coming months that is really revolutionary — is the dream of many of us on the consciousness/understanding pathway. And these gentlemen and others are putting it together in a form that we’ll be able to comprehend and be involved in — in the great tradition of the Philosophical Research Society and Manley Palmer Hall so we’re real happy to be a part of this and I’m pleased to be here with you so thank you.
( . . . )
C: Dr. Green, it’s a pleasure to meet you. I’ve heard you for years. And Dean Brown, now it’s a pleasure to meet you. ([PRS] “I HAVE”) I have the responsibility with Bob of the field organization for Science of Mind, which means all the ministers and practitioners and churches and study groups, so it’s an opportunity for us to integrate like minds, like ambitions and like dreams to see this coming together for all of us. And I mean it’s only fitting that it takes place here at the Philosophical Research Society which has this rich, rich tradition of serving Southern California with this abundance of consciousness study so we’re delighted to be part of it and thank you very much.
( . . . )
Q: I’m not in the curriculum. I just come for the lectures every Sunday. Well, first of all, do you need any plastic utensils for lunch? (“NO”)
D: N(o), I think Obadiah’s . . . (“OKAY”) . . . Thank you.
Q: Okay. Well, anyway, what was I going to ask you? Oh. I’ve had burning bush phenomena so —
D: (to another attendee) I’m going to get out of here so you can — that’s an earlier draft. That’s not even mine. Go ahead. Keep it.
Q: Can I ask you one question because I’m working on a book about the New Age?
Q: Your approach is much more scientific then what I’m used to coming here. How would you express your belief in God in, like, one sentence or so?
D: God is the agency that forms and guides the universe. I’m going to give it to you in a trinity. The originator and former of the universe, God is the community of Spirit. All Spirit. All light and the other — even rocks and galaxies have Spirit.
Q: Oh, I’m sure.
D: And God is your center that witnesses the universe and communicates with everyone else.
Q: And do you think, in terms of the synchronicity — do you think that the Christ energy source is the center of the synchronicity?
D: Well, it’s the third one. The Christ energy source is the God within you.
Q: Right. (“IN WHICH WE”) Each of us. Within each of us.
D: Within each of us. I don’t even like the word Christ. The word Christ — Jesus never used that word.
Q: That’s why I said energy.
D: Yeah. Jesus is a better word for it because Jesus means savior. That has nothing to do with the Spirit of community which is probably better expressed in the Old Testament than it is in the new.
Q: And do you think God was channeling through your subconscious when you were doing your arithmetic on the bomb or whatever?
D: Sure. Always. He’s channeling through each of us.
Q: So we don’t need to have any guilt amongst ourselves for anything we do?
D: No. Guilt gets in the way.
Q: And what’s the Holy Ghost? What do you think is the Holy Ghost?
D: That is the third category I said, which is the experience with God. Experience (“NOTHING”) of a human. When Moses was on Mount Horeb he was experiencing the Holy Ghost. (“UM-HUH” “WELL I”) He had to create —
Q: Well, I had two burning bushes outside my condo. (“YOU’RE HIS”) And I called the fire depart(ment.) (“[DEPART]MENT” “[E]XACTLY” “MIGHAEL” “JUST LOOKING”) Thank you. (“YES” “HAND”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I RECORDED LECTURE NOTES IN THE PRS COURTYARD BECAUSE I DIDN’T HAVE TIME TO GO HOME PRIOR TO THE SCREENING FOR “MARTHA.”)
Q: (speaking into tape recorder) So Dr. Brown’s lecture today in his series entitled “New Horizons for the New Millennium” was much more scientific than what I’ve been used to coming here to the PRS. He described himself as a theoretical physicist (“I THINK”) and his is the first professorship at PRS. There were some interesting things that Dr. Brown said. Like the time (“NOT”) that he was healed by (“SS”) Alma and Corinne, (“HAD MEANING”) who are Rosicrucians, after he had a motorcycle accident and they healed him. (“SO”) He had no scar or no limp and was able to take an airplane trip the next day or so. Some of the big scientific advancements of our century that he mentioned were black holes and DNA. And he translated ‘karma’ as meaning work. (“YEAH” “NO” “RIGHT” “OKAY” “I DID TOO”) And he mentioned that God is an adjective meaning good. The true names for God were thought to be too sacred by the translators of the Bible. (“MIGHT BE”) He remarked how close (“SA”) Sanskrit is to English. In talking about acentric universe, he said, “Every witness is the center of the universe” and “your center is God.” And science is the study of Mother Nature — that which is born and dies are natural; (“MENTION” “THAT”) psychology and biology were very important and “the rest is a pile of billiard balls,” which is one of the sounds I’ve been hearing on my tapes. (“UM”) He talked about Einstein’s and Newton’s laws. And that “spirit is embodied in beautiful flesh.” I’m not really quite sure what to make of all this because it’s a little bit more scientific than I can get very passionately excited about. It was more interesting hearing about the ants (“THAT”) kept pestering Dean and his wife (“SSS”) in their car because that’s sort of like God saying, ‘I’m here. I’m here. I’m here.’ So, looking over my notes, basically — (“HE SAID”) talked about perception and alpha and omega. (“UM”) He said most of science believes in alpha and no omega but he believes in an omega. And he also believes that 200% of the brain is used as opposed to some people who think that just 1% of the brain is used because it’s all used in the subconscious as opposed to the conscious. So that was an interesting idea. (“HE”) For his curriculum, which I’m not really involved in, he basically wanted to ask, “Is there an end to all this or does consciousness branch out in a tree forever?” The second question concerned, “Where are Homo sapiens going to be in 100,000 years?” I think a much better question would be, ‘Where are they going to be in ten years?’ A good question had to do with, “In the future when there are vials for happiness and wisdom — and just about anything — and you could buy them for a penny apiece, what would you buy if you had a limited amount of money?” So — (“HIS”) question was “Does consciousness evolve?” (“PLEASE”) And he mentioned the fact that “Insects or their skeletons come from the same DNA sequence that our skeleton comes from. I mean the outer shell of the insects and our skeleton. So we’re all variants of the same thing. (“HIS”) He talked about the limited amount of carbon on Earth and he quoted Blake. He called himself a Vedic scholar and a (“MIGHAEL DREAMS”) Platonist. (“SO”) Some of it was way over my head. (“WHERE HE”) When he talked about Moses and the burning bush — (“I” “YOU KNOW”) that was a part that I could very much relate to. (“IN YOUR DREAM” “UM”) He kept saying that Moses had a good time. Well, I’m trying to have a good time. (“UM”) And he said that when Moses asked God in the burning bush, “What should I tell them what you are?” — the bush said, “I AM BECOMING THAT WHICH I AM BECOMING.” Just like my book is becoming that which it is becoming. So he plans to demonstrate in the next twenty-five lectures that there is an end which he believes is omega, “the elevation of humanity to perfection.”
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: SOMEBODY IN THE BACKGROUND IS CALLING “MICHAEL” ON THE TAPE HERE. I TAPED THE FOLLOWING WHILE WALKING TO MY CAR.)
Q: I had a nice talk with two ladies outside of the center but as I was leaving I started looking for my tape recorder and I couldn’t find it. So I panicked. (“BUT”) So I went back and I sat next to them again. And then I finally found it. So either I just — no, it definitely was not there. So Mighael gave it back to me. I guess He wanted just to show me and remind me that he’s in the driver’s seat as if I didn’t already know. And I know, Mighael. I know. No one would ever believe this. It’s just too uncanny. I mean I thought that was a very boring dry lecture and He probably took my tape recorder just to get me to start talking again so I’d say that because I probably forgot to say it.
( . . . )
Q: I’m with Andy, (“MM”) Mike and James (“GET THROUGH”) at the Director’s Guild (“HELLO” “OBVIOUS”) and I just handed James (“THAT’S RIGHT HERE”) Letters From the Earth to read. James, what do you think of this? (“IS NORMAL” “I HAVE YOUR FOUR” “HE’S NEGATIVE” “IT LAY” “THEY”)
U: Out of this world. (“YOU’LL FIND IT” “ZOO NEW”) Hilarious. (“I LIKE THE BOOK A LOT”) As fresh today as it was ninety years ago. (“ST”) Biting like a fly upon the ass of man, Twain does his damnedest to —
Q: Do you believe it really is a jealous God?
U: — and we can’t swat it off either. We cannot swat off this fly that is —
Q: Is God really a jealous God?
U: Absolutely. (“I”) Although I do think there’s a distinction between envy and jealousy. (“OUT”) Remember jealousy is fear of losing something that you have. Envy is wanting something you don’t have. So He is a jealous God.
Q: Do you think that’s why I’ve had such a problem getting boyfriends? (“KISS I MIGHT” “MY THIRTEEN” “HEY”)
U: Depends on whose ass the fly is on.
B: If they see that —
Q: I know. (“IF HE”)
U: Mark knows.
B: If they see that tape —
U: Mark — no —
B: — recorder in here they’ll confiscate it. (“SO[ME]” “WORRY”)
U: They won’t do that.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I TURNED ON THE TAPE RECORDER AGAIN IN THE LOBBY AFTER THE SCREENING.)
Q: I thought it was a religious allegory. What did you think? (“OH”)
B: I think it was Fasbinderian. (“CAN DO” “WHAT’S A MOVIE” “FASSBINDERI[AN]”)
Q: I thought that the husband was symbolic of God and when (“HOW ARE”) she was (“YES” “WHY”) projecting evil into him they didn’t have a very good relationship. But after she stopped they had a good relationship. (“LET’S — LET’S — LET’S HO” “NOW”)
B: Are you going to the bathroom?
( . . . )
Y: That was one of the funniest things I’ve ever seen.
Q: What did you think, Andy?
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: ANDY DIDN’T RESPOND AND GRIMACED WHEN HE SAW MY TAPE RECORDER.)
(“I CAN’T” “SMART”)
( . . . )
Q: So, James, wait. What did you think of the film? (“COME HOME AT ONE”)
U: Ohhhhhh. Orgasmic. (“YEAH”) I’ve never — my contact flipped out in act three I was laughing so hard.
( . . . )
U: “. . . control it just a little bit? (“E T”) And maybe you should go out and get some water for that cough.”
Q: Who said that?
U: The guy to my right.
B: What did he say?
U: He said, “Can you just hold it down a bit? And maybe you should go out and get some water for that cough.”
Q: Did you notice the lion on the staircase? (“I”)
B: Huh? (“YEAH”)
U: Oh, I was coughing a lot of the time.
Q: The lion on the staircase?
U: I was laughing so hard it cleared up my whole lung. (“[E]XACTLY”)
Q: Did you notice (“MOVIE”) the Christian symbolism in the background?
U: I notice everything. I know — Mark — (“THAT’S DUE”) I know. But I mean that actress is divine. I mean my God to just go out in the middle of the balcony toward the end like that and just have that hysterical, melodramatic breakdown. I’ve never laughed so hard in my life. I thought was one of the funniest scenes I’ve ever seen period.
B: I love it.
Q: James, my name has the first three letters that her name does.
U: What’s her name? What’s the actress’s name?
Q: The character Martha.
U: Oh, Martha. That’s right. And Margit Carstensen. (“SHE”)
Q: The actress and the character have the same first three letters as in my name, Mark.
U: Margit Carstensen. What else was she in?
Q: She was in a lot of Fassbinder’s films.
U: I laughed so hard it brought all this phlegm up and a cold sore came back on my lip in the last three minutes.
B: You’ve got to take it easy, Arf. (“YOU MAYBE”)
( . . . )
Q: (speaking into tape recorder in my car) So I’m on my way to Ted’s dinner party and all I want to say about the film is that it did kind of catch the emotional truth of my relationship with Mighael in terms of loving Him as symbolized by the husband unconditionally and Him loving her unconditionally as well. Of course, in the film something bad happens to the character Martha played by Margit Carstensen because she projects evil into her husband — (“J[U]ST”) because he’s a little bit strange and she doesn’t quite understand him. So, (“THERE IS A”) there is a message there in terms of you create (“YOU BY PROJEC[TING]”) your husband, your God — (“A[S]”) as he was the symbol of. And notice in the film too there’s one scene where a fly is crawling over the actor who plays Helmut. In many films over the years I’ve noticed flies crawling over the actors and actresses. It’s something really that filmmakers have no control over but God does that just to let everyone know who’s in control — who’s the number one director — who’s the real director of the film. So here I am. I’ll take my (“KE”) tape recorder inside with me but they made me promise not to take it out. That would be rude, they said.
( . . . )
Q: You narrate.
S: Hi, this is Blaine and I live over at Park La Brea.
Q: Last name?
S: Stoddard. (“AS MY”) Anyway, my father passed away about (“TOM” “MARY”) five years ago. (“YEAH”) And, (“MISS A”) actually when he passed away (“YOU KNOW”) it was a deliverance. (“I TELL YOU” “UM-HUH”) But (“THERE” “HE SAID”) there was something very unsettled about his passing. (“PLEASE COME” “HERE”) And, about three years later in a dream, I was visiting my mother in Florida and she sent me out on an errand (“UH”) in her car. I was by myself and I went into a shopping center. And I couldn’t find a parking space so I said, “Heck, I’m not going to go now. I’m not going to shop now. And I remember exiting the shopping center on the other street because it was on a corner and I made a right turn. And then I got on the main highway again. It was a right turn. And I was (“ALO[NG]”) driving along at a moderate speed. And all of a sudden alongside me was my father bicycling along with my car. Now, he was totally at peace. I could see every pore on his skin. But I realized that my car (“HAD”) — it was one-way mirrors. He could not see in but I could see out. My father was plagued with addictions when he was alive. Alcohol and tobacco. And I could tell that (“SSS”) since he passed the veil into the other life — that he is free of those earthly addictions.
Q: What religion was he?
S: He was no religion to speak of.
Q: Atheist or Agnostic?
S: No, he said that God wears a thousand cloaks. That was his view of religion. But I have a religion. But, anyway, I saw him. He was totally at peace. He let me see him but it’s like he didn’t know that I could see him. And we never really had any contact. (“BUT”) The message was that he is doing really well. And I have no anxiety or worry about him. I feel that he has embraced the light.
Q: That’s great.
S: It was a great visit. It really was.
Q: While we’re at it, really quickly do you want to tell about the “Desiderata”? I used to see it the waiting room outside my therapist’s office.
S: Do you want to go back and read it together so it’s on tape?
Q: Okay. Yeah. That would be fun.