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S: Hi there. Thanks for holding. Can I get your name please?
Q: Yeah, my name's Mark.
S: Mark, where are you calling from?
Q: Well I'm listening on the Internet. I'm the live feed I'm in L.A. but since they play it so late here, I just listen to it on the live feed.
S: Oh, fantastic. I now Mark?
Q: Yeah?
S: Mark, your question really quickly please.
Q: Okay. Well as a longtime listener I've heard a lot about these cover-ups and I just wanted to ask Bill what is going to create the spiritual change in people to end them?
S: Excellent. Excellent question. Alright, Mark, hang on the line. I think I'm going to put you up first. Hold on. (commercials than show heard while I'm on hold) . . .
W: This is Whitley Strieber. It's "Dreamland" and we're back with your phone calls for Master Chief Brumley and Commander Donaldson. . . . Okay, got loads and loads of phone calls for you guys. I'm going to try to take these in order. . . . Okay, let's keep going with the telephones because we got loads of calls stacked up. Let's go to Mark in Los Angeles on the first time caller line. Hi, Mark.
Q: Hi, Whitley. (BEEP)
W: Mark, you there?
Q: Yeah. Hi, Whitley.
W: Hi.
Q: Hi, Bill and Dwight.
D: Hi.
Q: It seems like people are conditioned to escape into movie, TV and novel fantasy worlds. ("SO") One hopes that Whitley's anger is not a complacent one. It often seems with so many cover-ups like UFOs and Flight 800, crop circles and all the rest ("THAT") unless, like yourselves, you must've undergone some spiritual change, to speak out in this way ("AND") and show a good precedent, I hope, for your the other military people. Would you agree to that?
D: Well I think my my initial reaction when I talked to the navy investigator and I talked to the FBI and then I didn't hear from them ever again, but as I followed their news reports and listened and read, I just figured, "Well the FBI knows what they're doing. The NTSB knows what they're doing and if they need to get back to me to go have more information, they'll do that." You know, that's their they're all the experts. But then as time dragged on and on and on, and then a little over a year ago, you know, I started becoming in contact with Commander Donaldson and some others that it became painfully obvious that they were either were unwilling or unable to get to the truth of what really happened. And somebody needs to hold their feet to the fire. And so it takes people like myself and Commander Donaldson and Tom Stalcup and others to finally stand up and raise the flag and say there's something wrong here.
Q: Have you seen the website testament.org, Mark Russell Bell's website that basically provides proof of a shared Superconscious Creator that is testing us?
D: No. No.
W: Well we we're not going to get into that tonight. There are other we'll have other programs where that's going to be a good question but we're closer to the Earth right now.
B: Right. We're
W: A lot closer than we'd like to be.
B: Yeah, very much into it's in the metal. I mean the
W: Right.
B: fact is the number two main tank exploded and I testif (line disconnected)
( . . . )
Q: So when the audio went off on my phone, I went to listen to it on the Internet but it was some minutes before (on) the live Internet feed. So I was going to wait to hear it on the radio but they didn't have the final hour. I guess they rebroadcast it on Saturday night. So It's now Saturday after the (last) Sunday (broadcast) and I'm going to tape my call and the rest of the program on the rest of this tape.
( . . . )
W: . . . keep going with the telephones because we got loads of calls stacked up. Let's go to Mark in Los Angeles on the first time caller line. Hi, Mark. Mark, you there?
Q: Yeah. Hi, Whitley.
W: Hi.
Q: Hi, Bill and Dwight.
D: Hi.
Q: It seems like people are conditioned to escape into movie, TV and novel fantasy worlds. ("SO") One hopes that Whitley's anger is not a complacent one. It often seems with so many cover-ups like UFOs and Flight 800, crop circles and all the rest ("THAT") unless, like yourselves, you must've undergone some spiritual change, to speak out in this way ("AND") and show a good precedent, I hope, for your the other military people. Would you agree to that?
D: Well I think my my initial reaction when I talked to the navy investigator and I talked to the FBI and then I didn't hear from them ever again, but as I followed their news reports and listened and read, I just figured, "Well the FBI knows what they're doing. The NTSB knows what they're doing and if they need to get back to me to go have more information, they'll do that. You know, that's their they're all the experts. But then as time dragged on and on and on, and then a little over a year ago, you know, I started becoming in contact with Commander Donaldson and some others that it became painfully obvious that they were either were unwilling or unable to get to the truth of what really happened. And somebody needs to hold their feet to the fire. And so it takes people like myself and Commander Donaldson and Tom Stalcup and others to finally stand up and raise the flag and say there's something wrong here.
Q: Have you seen the web basically provides proof of a shared Superconscious Creator that is testing us?
D: No. No.
W: Well we we're not going to get into that tonight. There are other we'll have other programs where that's going to be a good question but we're closer to the Earth right now.
B: Right. We're
D: A lot closer than we'd like to be.
B: Yeah, very much into it's in the metal. I mean the
W: Right.
B: fact is the number two main tank exploded and I testified in front of the chairman (of) the NTSB and the Aviation Subcommittee. And these guys haven't even done the basic metal protocol to determine which fuel tank exploded first. They got a common wall. It's easy. You can look at it under a microscope and it (or "AND IT') and I'm telling you they're scared. But they've got the power and if they're trying to bluff their way through, and I've said again and again and again, if they sign off on that stuff, you just made an enemy that you don't want. And, you know, and I got a handful of four-star admirals and generals that are not real happy about what's going on. And they're in retirement. I'm not talking about taking over the government. Don't get anybody go nuts on . . .
W: Let's not get them coming in our back doors tonight, Commander. (laughs)
B: No, we're not fixing bayonets and going up and getting those bad boys, ("NO") we're . . .
W: But what you're talking about is is it ("IS") legal?
B: Oh yeah. 100%.
D: Absolutely.
W: Yeah.
B: That's the only way to clean this up. And it's even better if the agency that went afoul does it themselves. Okay? And they'll all you got to do my experience is and I've done some cross-department investigations. I had I was appointed by the navy at one time to investigate FAA controllers down in Florida over an incident with a navy fighter. And I found out that it the whole thing was over union action. They were trying to take over a warning area offshore and they were fabricating near misses with airliners. And when that went to the CNO, the whole thing came to a screeching halt. The Secretary of Transportation was starting to look for people to fire down there. So the agencies are capable of cleaning themselves up. The problem is we got a whole nest of political appointees that come in with each administration
W: Right.
B: and have the upper hand. And if they're corrupt or if they're more loyal to the appointment than to the Constitution, we've got a problem. . . .
Q: Well so after all of Whitley's griping about cover-ups, he's participating in a cover-up
about my book, which provides evidence of God's Existence and God's Love. And, of course, I
think this could be a very big motivating factor for people throughout the world. So where is
Whitley's responsibility? He must be aware of the cover-up. I can't say that I can even be sure
that my website address went out last weekend when I said it because I didn't hear it myself. I
think it did. Unless they have the same kind of editing apparatus that Mike Siegel has used on
"Coast to Coast" when I've called in. So Whitley's complaining about cover-ups and here he is,
participating in a cover-up of my website. . . . Well, after thinking about it . . . anyway, I do think
I did deliver my website address on the air because I did have a huge number of hits at the
website that evening, Sunday evening, much more than my usual. So I'll just have to transcribe
it. Now I have conclusive evidence of the cover-up. It says a lot about freedom of speech and
what's happened to radio.
S: "Coast to Coast A.M." Did you have a question for Ian Punnett?
Q: Yes. I just wanted ("IT") related to the theme of the show tonight.
S: Okay, what is your first name?
Q: Mark.
S: And where are you calling from? ("ON")
Q: I'm listening on the Internet and I'm calling from Los Angeles.
S: (pause) Okay, you're on the wild card line. Make sure you turn your Internet audio off, okay?
Q: Okay.
S: Alright. Hang on.
(TRANSCRIBER'S NOTE: AS THE SHOW BEGINS TO BE HEARD OVER THE TELEPHONE RECEIVER, THE CALL-IN NUMBERS ARE HEARD WITH THE BUMPER MUSIC "EVERYBODY WANTS TO RULE THE WORLD" PERFORMED BY TEARS FOR FEARS. I LISTEN TO THREE CALLS BEFORE IT IS MY TURN.)
B: . . . the God part of the brain and even talks ("WH") about why there are atheists like myself. Because it's like a bell curve where on the one hand comparing the two musicians are like a curve that goes up like a
I: Right. (or "RIGHT")
B: bell.
I: Well I these are things I look forward to exploring with him on an upcoming show and I'm sure we'll make the opportunity. And, as you do every time you call, Bill, you prove time and time again that you do not have the God part of the brain. Mark is in Los Angeles on (BEEP) "Coast to Coast A.M." for a half hour of open phones before we get to our guests. Mark?
Q: Good evening, Ian.
I: An(d) evening to you.
Q: In relation to that last call, I might say that well obviously Christ is ("OF") active in all of our lives or we'd all eat at the same restaurant every night ("OR") be in trouble for that, anyway. ("BUT UM") I was hoping that maybe you could ask your guests tonight if they're familiar with Bel-Marduk or, as he was known in Egyptology, Amun-Ra or Amen-Ra? Apparently, that was the original
I: Right. (or "RIGHT")
Q: resurrection story.
I: Right. And actually they do address that. And they get into all of the incarnations, if you will, of that story. And that's why they believe that it was just a matter of time until the Jewish culture of the 1st Century also adopts their own version of it. And that the authors, you know, traced that with images which I believe I don't know this I was told we're going to try and get them on the website. So you might even be able to look up some of the idolatry from the ancient Egyptians that kind of speak to this issue as well.
Q: What's interesting about that, though, in terms of Bel-Marduk being the first is being his (or "BEING HIS") current reincarnation as described by the testament.org website. Are you familiar with that website?
I: No, I'm not.
Q: Um
I: I will I'll be happy to check it out but I'm not familiar with it.
Q: Yeah. Basically, Bel-Marduk has been reincarnated as a film publicist. ("AND")
I: A film publicist?
Q: Right.
I: (O)kay.
Q: And what he
I: In Los Angeles?
Q: That's right.
I: (O)kay.
Q: City of the Angels. I guess there's an angelic connection there. When he's tried calling some of the other hosts, they, like, disconnected him and cut him off so he has the actual transcripts of his conversations ("ON") online in the New Testament section.
I: Alright. Well I will take a look on the website and I promise if he calls I won't hang up. And that is the beauty of open phones as we
Q: (off the air) That's testament.org
I: never know quite sure where the show's going to go and we'll do it again. Coming up another round on the way before our guests join us coming up on "Coast to Coast A.M." next. My name's Ian Punnett. (commercials commence)
(TRANSCRIBER'S NOTE: THIS IS HOW THE FOLLOWING CALLER BEGAN HIS CONVERSATION WITH IAN PUNNETT.)
M: Yeah, hello. I just have a question for all these atheists who call your show. If I were to show you a brand new Pentium computer with all the extras and whistles and bells and whatever and I were to tell you that this computer came into existence when a tornado went through a junkyard and the computer just evolved into existence, would you believe that? When you look at this universe, even any facet of this universe, whether the structure of atoms, DNA, the human brain, the cosmos, galaxies every aspect of this universe is infinitely more complex than what we can build. But yet we're asked to believe that all humans can be accidentally just evolved into existence.
(TRANSCRIBER'S NOTE: IAN PUNNETT BEGAN THE SECOND HOUR OF THE SHOW AS FOLLOWS.)
I: Live from the Butch Foster Memorial Studio where I sit with The Jesus Mysteries: Was The
Original Jesus A Pagan God? By Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy on one knee and my Ask
Jeeves Internet searcher on the other. It is that kind of a book always challenging, never
boring. I found myself going through not just material from my own studies towards my Masters
in divinity but also spending a lot of time on the Internet in some of the books that I have
accumulated in my own library, making sure that I understood exactly what it was that they were
getting at. And, of the material that they referenced that had already been part of my experience
as graduate student, I say they're spot-on. Whether they come to the right conclusion, I'm going
to leave that up to you. It'll be a while before we get to open phones and I ask your patience
with this subject and ask you to indulge our guests with your respect in hearing the case they're
going to make for the origins of Jesus being so directly tied to Pagan/Gnostic myths, which the
authors maintain as was the Gnostic tradition, were never intended to be taken literally. It's all a
big misunderstanding according to Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy. We'll let them make their
case on what could be my last night on "Coast to Coast" or my last day in the seminary,
depending if any of my professors are going to be listening to this show coming up next on
"Coast to Coast A.M." My name's Ian Punnett.
(theme song)
Baby, your man is home
Turn all the lights down low
I've got no reason to roam
No place I need to go
There's only me and you
We both know what to do
Turn Mr. KABC on
We have been waiting all day long
After the sun slides down
He's heard all over town
Our pseudo-deity
Mr. KABC
M: Six minutes after nine o'clock, this is Talk Radio 790 KABC. I am Mr. KABC with you every weeknight between seven and ten. Here to take your phone calls and your questions without guests, topics or a screener. The caller who referred to me as a liar and some kind of a shill for the Democrats and for Bill Clinton "Wednesday June 30, 1999. Hubble Pleads Guilty: Gets No Jail Time" "Longtime Presidential friend Webster Hubble was sentenced to a year of probation today after pleading guilty to concealing aspects of his work involving the failed savings and loan at the center of the Whitewater investigation. 'After five years, it's over,' Hubble said outside the courthouse. 'Our lives can begin again.' Hubble's attorney said Starr had agreed to never investigate or prosecute Hubble again. Hubble who already" "(As) part of the deal, prosecutors asked for no jail time, restitution or fine on felony or second guilty plea on a misdemeanor charge of failure to pay taxes." And, as you know, later the tax fraud case against Webster Hubble was dismissed, falling on the immunity argument, citing the use of immunity given Webster Hubble when he agreed to testify in the Whitewater case. "A federal judge has dropped the tax evasion case against Clinton friend and former Justice Department official Webster Hubble. The case involved tax fraud involving money that was suspected of being 'hush money' from Clinton campaign contributors when Hubble was sent to prison." So that's issue number one. Issue number two was Susan McDougal. This is from April here's April 8th it should go to April April 12th, 1999. "McDougal Not Guilty on One Count Mistrial . . ." "Whitewater figure Susan McDougal was found not guilty Monday of obstruction of justice. The judge declared a mistrial after jurors said they were hopelessly deadlocked on the criminal contempt charges. U.S. District Judge George Howard Jr. complained declared the mistrial on two criminal contempt counts just before jurors delivered the innocent verdict in the courtroom. An ecstatic defense team read the verdict as a repudiation of independent counsel Ken Starr. 'If anything should put a stake through the heart of Ken Starr, this should be it,' said Mark Geragos, McDougal's defense attorney. 'This guy should pack up, should get out of here. I'm happy to be the one along with Susan to wish him bon voyage and get the heck out of Arkansas. And do it now.' After the verdict, McDougal hugged her fiancé Pat Harris and Geragos" and it just goes on and on. So the caller who made the claim that Webster Hubble was convicted and sent to prison is not true and that Susan McDougal was found guilty of other charges, aside from the contempt, (or "WHICH IS" or "WITCHES") when she wouldn't speak to Starr because she felt it was a witch hunt. I think I've been vindicated here but don't let the facts get in the way of your opinion. Back to the phone lines and to your calls at (gives number). We'll start with you. (BEEP) Hi, welcome. You're on with Mr. KABC. Good evening.
Q: Oh good evening, Mr. KABC. I tried reaching you last night but I couldn't get through. I wanted to
M: . . .
Q: Yeah. ("CAUSE") By the way, I'm one of those people with the voice where people don't always know
M: Yeah, I'm getting the sense you're a guy, though.
Q: Thank you.
M: Yeah, you're a man. Right?
Q: That's right.
M: Okay, yeah. And you know what? Tha(t) the other the caller last night was much more difficult to discern than you.
Q: Not for me, though.
M: Sir, you're a little effeminate, though.
Q: Well I thought that she I mean I knew that she was a woman.
M: Uh-huh. You did? Well, see, the audience was split so I don't know that we kn(ow) we don't know for certain because that caller never called back.
Q: And I guess it depends on what kind of mood you're in.
M: Why are you gay?
Q: Isn't everybody?
M: Yeah, alright.
Q: Okay. But, anyway, I was calling because
M: Gayer than the 1890s.
Q: Well I don't know. I just think I think that everyone is gay.
M: You do?
Q: Yeah.
M: Really? I'm gay?
Q: Everyone is. Well I see I think it's people are trying to conform to society.
M: Uh-huh.
Q: And
M: Well being gay means you would enjoy having sex with me(n) I have I got to be honest with you. I have no interest in having sex with men. None.
Q: Well, yes, because your preoccupation is with confirming with society. It doesn't really have so much to do with what arouses you.
M: Oh. ("BUT")
Q: I mean it's you don't want to I think that's society's main problem. It's sort of
M: Well are you gay or you bisexual? ("WWL")
Q: Me personally
M: Yeah.
Q: I let's just say I'm celibate at the moment.
M: Uh-huh. Is that by choice or by circumstance?
Q: A little of each. I I'm actually my story is sort of like this large soap opera. ("BECAU") That was what I wanted to ask you about, by the way
M: Why is every why is every gay guy's life like a soap opera? What's that about? ("WELL")
Q: I think everybody is gay so that means everybody's life is like a soap opera.
M: Alright . . . can I how can I you know what? This is ("I KNOW") I don't know a lot of gay people but I know a few gay people and all every gay person I know is convinced that everyone is gay. I don't know why gay and that's wh they always like to point to celebrities to try and like especially handsome male celebrities to try and prove their point. Like they whisper how, "Oh you know everyone knows Tom Cruise is gay." You know? And stuff like that.
Q: Well I work(ed) in Hollywood so I'm the right person to ask about that.
M: . . . about everyone everyone who's gay wants to believe that everyone else in the world is gay. It's just that we're afraid of what society might think . . .
Q: Well I think it all goes back to Adam and Eve. I think people have always been puzzled by the original sin that they committed. ("AND WHEN YOU") When you consider that Adam and Eve were meant to be eternal beings, quite possibly and conceivably, the fact that they had sex with one another and had children was the first faux pas in mankind's history.
M: Oeah alright what did you call me about tonight?
Q: Okay. Well I was just calling because I'm not one of those who can afford to listen every night but when I have been turning in
M: I don't charge to listen to the show. What do you mean you can't afford to listen every night?
Q: Well just I have other things to do.
M: The broadcast is free. Well you can carry a radio with you.
Q: But last night I was listening and
M: (What) can't you do while enjoying the Mr. KABC show?
Q: When I can, I do.
M: Thank you.
Q: And ("LIE") last night there was aliens came up. There was that final discussion about God. And I remember hearing about fish falls, which is something that's very highly documented, by the way, through the centuries. And crop circles. And I was just wondering by the way, what do you think about crop circles?
M: I think they're a hoax.
Q: Have you done any research into the matter?
M: Not as much as you'd like me to.
Q: Well there are a lot of websites such as ("LIKE") http://www.cropcircleconnector and http://www.cropcircleradius and it's quite compelling because I mean ("THERE") there has been video footage of these luminescent orbs usually followed by
M: There's a very famous video where some there's a big field and there are these things that kind of dash across the sky and, following them, are these crop circles. That video was revealed as a hoax.
Q: Well, no, the one I was talking about was the one where there's a British government helicopter in pursuit of this small glowing orb.
M: Oh, I haven't seen this one.
Q: And there are a lot of reports I guess the "Dreamland" show on Sunday goes into that often enough. And, plus, there are so
M: You know, science fiction is fun and if you want to believe it, that's fine. . . . ("WELL IT'S")
Q: It's not sci(ence fiction) but I'm just saying the Internet does have all these very compelling websites. And I think
M: The Internet has all kinds of kooky things. That's why
Q: Well I think if I was going to recommend one, the one I would recommend is testament.org. Have you visited that website yet?
M: I'll get to have you run it?
Q: Well ("IT") it's
M: You know what I'm going to have to(morrow) speak of the Internet and fun? Tomorrow night, at this in this hour, I'm going to have the webmaster is it the webmaster? I'm going to have someone who runs http://www.topsecretrecipes.com.
Q: That sounds very boring to me.
M: Whhh what do you mean? You haven't heard it yet.
Q: Well
M: Aren't don't you
Q: I don't think food is meant to be a sumptuous feast. I think it's just meant for simple sustenance.
M: Wait a second. Don't you want to know what the Colonel's eleven herbs and spices are?
Q: I'm a vegan.
M: Oh boy. Gay vegan.
Q: Well I think Spirit see, I'm one of those people who has meditated long and hard about various spiritual issues.
M: You're a gay vegan who's into crop circles.
Q: Oh I've even had sex with an angel once. I mean that's why
M: Alright I need to move on.
Q: Well no ("BUT I" "BUT") if you do want to read about my soap opera.
M: . . . there's nothing more that you could say that could top the claim
Q: Well no but if you visit the my website, then you can read all about it.
M: There is nothing that could top the claim that you just made that you've had sex with an angel.
Q: Well
M: I need to move on. Please don't let me
Q: testament.org, Mr. KABC.
M: Alright, is that it is your website.
Q: That's right.
M: Why did I know that you were calling to promote your own website?
Q: Well sometimes
M: I'll take a I'm going to go check it out. There's no nudity or anything?
Q: Matt Drudge gave it a good review. When I called him, he kept helping me promote my website too.
M: Well there might've been something else going on there. I need to move on. I appreciate the call.
Q: Thank you, Mr. KABC.
M: Alright. Thank you, sir. Bye bye. (line disconnected)
(TRANSCRIBER'S NOTE: I BEGAN RECORDING FROM THE RADIO BROADCAST TO SEE IF ANY CALLERS WOULD COMMENT ON MY CALL AND/OR SEE IF MR. KABC WOULD MAKE ANY FURTHER REMARK AFTER THE BREAK.)
M: Eighteen minutes after nine o'clock. This is Talk Radio 79. I am Mr. KABC. With you until ten tonight. Every weeknight from seven to ten is where you find Mr. KABC without guests, topics or a screener. Alright, right back to the phone lines and to your calls. Hi, welcome, you're on (with) Mr. KABC.
U: Hello Mr. KABC?
M: Yes, go ahead, sir. ("NO")
U: I'm calling about Whitewater.
M: Okay.
U: Looking in the 1998 World Almanac it states that on May 28th, 1996 James and Susan McDougal were convicted of fraud and conspiracy. Arkansas Governor Jim Guy Tucker was convicted of similar charges by the same jury.
M: Yeah but not but no jail Hubble was you didn't mention Hubble, did you?
U: No.
M: Yeah. McDougal was declared oh this is confusing to me because Susan McDougal was declared not guilty and a mistrial on the other two charges
U: Well see if . . .
M: Wait a minute April 12th, 1999.
U: This is May 28th, 1996.
M: Nineteen ninety
U: Because also she was sent to jail September 9th for contempt after refusing to testify about Whitewater. But she was convicted of fraud and conspiracy with her husband on May 28th, 1996, which is what that guy who called in
M: Wait a minute. Tried and convicted in May 1996 of fraud charges, sentenced to two years. Before she could serve any of that time, McDougal was slapped by the judge with an additional eighteen months in jail on civil contempt charges when she refused to answer further questions from the Whitewater prosecutors July of 1998. Released from jail early after serving the entire contempt sentence in four months of the Whitewater sentence. Acquitted of embezzlement charges unrelated to her Whitewater activity. Through her defense counsel. Independent counsel Ken Starr of engineering McDougal's prosecution to force her to testify against Bill Clinton. Yeah, you're on to something here.
U: I know. You just said you said earlier that's why I called.
M: Yeah, no, it's a fair
U: You said that she wasn't convicted of anything else and this clearly says that she was.
M: Yeah. You know what?
U: So it says this was 1996.
M: You're right. 1996 fraud charges, sentenced to two years. You're correct.
U: Fraud and conspiracy with her husband.
M: It just says here Whitewater-related fraud charge but alright.
U: Anyway, so that other guy was right. In part, anyway.
M: In part, yeah.
U: No . . .
M: Well he's wrong wait a minute. He's hold on. He's wrong about McDougal because he said that McDougal
U: Well I don't know about that. ("ALRIGHT") I'm just talking about the
M: And as I understand it, Jim Guy Tucker pled guilty and received no jail time but I need to look that up to make certain.
U: Yeah. I just think you should don't automatically say someone is wrong just because you think you have the right answer. . . .
M: Well I don't. Sir, I don't. Wait a minute. I read to you what I had and, upon closer examination, you're correct. There was, in fact, a conviction in 1996 related to Whitewater.
U: Right.
M: Yeah. That's true.
U: But I'm just saying . . .
M: But he's but he was wrong ("BUT") but he's wrong about Hubble and he's wrong about Jim Guy Tucker.
U: That may be. I'm just saying a lot of times you
M: Listen, sir
U: say someone is wrong without knowing
M: let me tell you something. This is how I operate the program and let's be very clear about this. I tell you what I believe to be the truth. If I'm wrong, I'm the first guy to tell you. Okay?
U: Yeah but I I've been seeing a lot of times you do . . .
M: I don't mislead people. I don't
U: . . . absolute fact that you're right when a lot of times
M: Sir
U: you're not.
M: I'm telling you what I believe to be the fact. I'm a human being. I am wrong. And when I'm wrong I'm the first guy to tell you I'm wrong. How else would you like me to do the show? When people call up and say "Will the sun rise tomorrow?," my answer will be yes. But I'm cou(ld) is it possible that I'll be wrong? Of course. I'm telling you what I believe to be the truth until I learn otherwise.
U: I know. I'm just saying sometimes you express your beliefs as fact. That's all. That's the only part I
M: Well, sir, I think I made it very clear with that caller that he was making statements about me lying to people. I don't lie to anybody. My
U: I'm not
M: I know you're not. I'm telling you what he said.
U: Right.
M: He said that I lied and that I was purposely misleading people. I don't purposely mislead anybody. If I get something wrong, I'll tell you I got it wrong. You called up and explained to me why in fact in 1996 she was convicted and I agreed with you. I was wrong.
U: Fair enough.
M: Alright?
U: Okay, I'm just saying a lot of times
M: Sir, it isn't a lot it isn't a lot ("SIR")
U: I get the feeling
M: it isn't please, don't scream over me. It isn't a lot of times. When I tell you something just like the Firestone tires I'm telling you what I believe to be the truth. If I learn something the caller said, "Well, you know, what if it turns out that Ford and Firestone had conspired to keep information from the public?" I don't know about that. I don't know the people who run Ford and Firestone so I don't know if, in fact, there is a smoking gun. If there is, I'll change my view.
U: Fair enough
M: I'll tell you I was wrong.
U: I'm going to guess that it's going to turn out that all these SEVs are just too heavy . . .
M: Alright, well this is a separate issue, sir.
U: Right.
M: It's totally separate. I think you understand how I operate the program now, though, and that's important that I got that out.
U: Thanks.
M: Alright. Thanks for the call. Hi, welcome. You're on with Mr. KABC.
(TRANSCRIBER'S NOTE: I TURNED OFF THE TAPE RECORDER AND THEN CHANGED MY MIND, TURNING IT BACK ON AT THE SLOWER 4HLP SPEED AS THERE WASN'T MUCH TAPE LEFT FOR THE SIDE.)
N: . . . You're supposed to know everything.
M: Sir, if I knew everything, would I be hosting this show talking to you?
N: Sure wouldn't but I want to congratulate you on your statistical insight into the Firestone tire issue.
M: The hysteria.
N: The hysteria. And how really an important statistic is the percentage of tires that have failed out of all of that type of tire that's out there.
M: Right. Or how it is in proportion with every other brand of major-selling tire.
N: Right.
M: It's not so out of whack. And the only reason why you're hearing it more than any other tire brand is because you're hearing it more than any other tire brand.
N: And I guess I my question to you is
M: It feeds on itself and the more people who have any kind of an accident related to a Firestone tire now makes news. What was it? There was a boy who tragically died in a car that flipped that had Firestone Wilderness AT tires on it. And it made the top of the hour news. Well how many other kids were involved in fatal accidents where the tires had a problem?
N: Mr. KABC
M: I'm sure it's more than just the one kid.
N: My question to you is why don't you apply the same logic to our public debt, realizing that it's not so much the dollar value of our public debt
M: As but it . . . percentage of our GNP.
N: but the percentage of our GNP. And not only if you look at it not only
M: I've heard this claim but here's
N: But if you look at it as a percentage of our national market capitalization . . .
M: Here's the problem with all this. Unlike our GNP or what was the other thing?
N: The National Market Capitalization . . .
M: Or our Nat(ional)
N: . . . stock market.
M: Other than our National Market Capitalization. The difference is the debt grows geometrically because of the compounded interest. See, our GNP it grows linear it grows or shrinks in a linear fashion because you're not applying compounded interest on it. ("THERE'S") There's a quote that's attributed to Albert Einstein. Who knows if he really said it or not. But he said, "The most powerful force in the universe is compounded interest."
N: Well if you look
M: Anyone who owns a house understands this when they realize how little every month they're actually paying to reduce the balance on their home mortgage and how much is going to interest.
N: But it really doesn't matter if the total amount continues to shrink. If I make $20,000 a year and I owe $10,000, I'm in big trouble. But if I owe $10,000 and I make $400,000 a year, who cares (about) the fact that I owe $10,000.
M: Here's the it's a very good point and I'm glad you're making it but here's the problem.
N: If you look at (it) statistically . . .
M: I know. I understand. I understand what you're saying. If you look at how much we have versus how much we owe it's not a problem but here's where it gets ugly. It isn't just how much we owe, it's how much interest there is on what we owe. And that's growing at a greater rate than the economy is growing. ("SO") You said to me if I have $10,000 in debt and I have a $20,000 income I'm in big trouble. Well you wouldn't be in big trouble if there was no interest on that debt but make that debt 20% interest, you'll never pay that off. Never. If you have a $20,000 income and you have $10,000 in debt at 20% interest compound, you will never ever, ever get out from under that debt.
N: Correct.
M: If it said zero if it grows
N: If you look at the actual statistics over the last ten years, you'll see that yes, indeed, that whole public debt which includes the debt service is decreasing. And that's, you know, you just look at the per capita growth debt and the public
M: Well alright, you're attitude is, "Don't worry, be happy. You'll be able to pay off your debt tomorrow." And you may be right.
N: I am concerned. I'm concerned about something that Clinton did a couple years ago. He transferred our debt from long-term debt to short-term debt. The bond.
M: Okay.
N: So even the slightest uptake in interest rates, which in years past would make very little effect on our debt; in the future, even the smallest increase in public debt in interest rate will dramatically increase our interest payment because instead of being financed long-term, we're now financed short-term. And if you look into that, that will be Bill Clinton's long . . .
M: What was the philosophy about? What was it because what was the philosophy behind that because he couldn't do that singlehandedly, could he?
N: Yeah.
M: How did he do that?
N: The Presidential Order. He was able
M: Yeah, you know, executive orders don't apply to things like the debt. That's not correct.
N: He was able to instruct the you got me the people that issue the bond to stop issuing a ten and twenty-year bond and start issuing five-year bonds and only five-year or (or "OR") limit them. If you want to go a long buy a long-term bond right now from the government
M: Um-huh (or "UM-HUH") right.
N: very, very difficult.
M: Really?
N: Because they don't offer them like they did five/ten years ago.
M: You mean like a series double-A bond?
N: No, those are savings bonds. I'm talking about like
M: A government-insured bond?
N: Government-insured bond.
M: Okay.
N: And I and another couple of quick things. . . .
M: Wait but by transferring it to short-term debt, does that mean it reduced the rate?
N: It makes us feel good right now. And that's one of the reasons that we have all these budget surplus. Because our interest
M: We don't have budget surplus. We have projected budget surplus.
N: Project right. They're projecting, yeah. Why didn't they project them three years ago? ("NO") Three years ago, we were going to be in debt. . . .
M: But because we've taken in so much more because of a healthy economy and
N: Well what do you mean "healthy economy"?
M: You don't believe we have a healthy economy?
N: Do you think bankruptcies the number of bankruptcies are a good measure of how healthy our country is?
M: Personal bankruptcies are not corporate bankruptcies are down tremendously. There's no my brother was a corporate bankruptcy attorney, got out of the business because there ain't no corporations going bankrupt.
N: Oh. What about personal?
M: Personal bankruptcy is up because people are spending more than they earn. They're following the Republican philosophy of borrow and spend.
N: There you go. Okay well
M: (small laugh)
N: I you shot me down. I'm . . .
M: Alright, sir.
N: All I want to know now is what are the ten major freeways.
M: (small laugh) Alright, you want to name them?
N: Would you ask Hubble for tax advice?
M: Would I do what?
N: Would you ask Hubble for tax advice?
M: No and, you know what? And this is the other thing. I didn't vote for Clinton either time and I think he surrounded himself with a lot of scumbags. And I think Hubble is one of them. And the McDougals were another pair. And a lot of people who I think were unsavory characters. I'm not defending them. I'm just talking about what the reality of the situation was and it wasn't as though they got the President, which was ultimately the aim of the Whitewater investigation was to get as high as they could. That's why they put Susan McDougal in jail for contempt charges. Because they felt that she could rat out the President. And she not only didn't but didn't but said all along and so did her husband: "They don't have the goods on him."
N: Ah the lucky dog.
M: Alright. So what was your last
N: Find out about those ten major freeways.
M: I'll give them to you right now. You got the 22. . . .
Subject: My Call Last Night
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 15:01:42 -0700
From: Mark Russell Bell <markrussellbell@earthlink.net>
Organization: http://testament.org
To: mrkabc@primenet.com
Mr. KABC,
In case anybody missed my website address and asks for it, I hope you will let them know it's http://testament.org if they ask via Email, you may send them a copy of this with the following news release.
Mark Russell Bell
MARK RUSSELL BELL: "GOD HAS REVEALED SECRETS OF LIFE TO ME"
CASE STUDY DOCUMENTED FREE ON THE INTERNET AT http://testament.org
LOS ANGELES TESTAMENT, available in a free Internet edition published by Mark Russell Bell, documents how God revealed secrets of life to him and provided Bell with physical evidence of his previous incarnation as an Egyptian priest.
He transcribed and edited the interview transcripts and journals that comprise the book after working as a publicity writer for Paramount Pictures, the film studio with the familiar mountain logo. Bell comments, "The Angelic Force that has manifested in my life is the same that spoke to Moses in the Mount, was known to Nostradamus, used Edgar
Cayce as a channel, was referred to as 'The Mahatmas' by THE SECRET DOCTRINE author Madame Blavatsky, communicated via the Ouija Board to inspire the MESSAGES FROM MICHAEL books, and was glimpsed in a near death experience by Dr. George Ritchie as chronicled by Dr. Raymond A. Moody in LIFE-AFTER-LIFE."
TESTAMENT evolved after Bell wrote an unpublished book chronicling talking poltergeists throughout history, including the Bell Witch case of the early 19th Century. He then learned about a contemporary familythe Bell/Mc Wethy family of Centrahomaexperiencing the talking poltergeist phenomena and traveled to rural Oklahoma for interviews. Upon returning home to Los Angeles, Bell decided to
continue conducting interviews about the unexplained and turned his attention to Hollywood. His lineage chart is included in the book and reveals ties with film directors Alfred Hitchcock ("Rebecca," "Vertigo") and Ken Russell ("Tommy," "Altered States").
The bell synchronicity in his life culminated when he became aware he had lived a previous life in Egypt as Bel-Marduk also known as Ra-Ta (Sun-Earth) the priest. Visiting an antique store several blocks from his home in Echo Park, Bell found an Egyptian pendant with a profile of his exact likeness. In 1932, Cayce prophesied Ra-Ta would return to the world in 1998; in that year people discovered Bell via his website.
The connection between Bel-Marduk and Ra is a subject of the work of Zecharia Sitchin. In Sitchin's recent book THE COSMIC CODE, ancient texts are cited concerning Marduk's emergence from the Great Pyramid. Sitchin identifies these texts on pages 59/84 as "precursors of the New Testament tale of the death, entombment, and resurrection of Jesus. Sentenced to exile, Ra/Marduk became Amen-Ra, the unseen god. . . . scholars seriously debated at the turn of this century whether his story was a prototype of the story of Christ."
As Bell comments in "Publishing Information" at http://testament.org "Reading TESTAMENT illuminates the lost knowledge of the relationships of man and the carnal world with those changes that fade or fall away in their various effect, making plain the interpretation of death. The reader's consciousness is expanded; thus the 'uncovering' of the Hall of Records. . . . Spirit has made my life an open book so that others can expand their consciousness."
In addition to interview and journal transcripts, materials collected at http://testament.org include photographs of a variety of what is sometimes called 'paranormal phenomena,' including spirits and apparitions, bushes that went up in flames behind Bell's condo, a bigfoot, and entities seen at a window that a rural Oklahoma family believe to be aliens.
During a recent national radio interview, Bell spoke about publishing his work as a free "Special Internet Edition": "I wanted to be sure that it wasn't spirituality for sale . . . I did want to make sure all the information was available on the Internet for everyone."
At Paramount, Bell contributed to publicity campaigns for more than 100 films including "Ghost," several "Star Trek" films, "Scrooged," "Fire In The Sky," "Dead Again," a reissue of "The Ten Commandments," "The Addams Family," "Braveheart," "The Butcher's Wife," "Coneheads," "Forrest Gump," a couple "Friday the 13th" films, "The Godfather, Part III," "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade," "The Indian in the Cupboard," "Leap of Faith," "The Naked Gun," "Pet Sematary," "U2 Rattle and Hum," "Virtuosity" and "We're No Angels."
Bell says that after his experiences he perceives watching movies or television shows as distractions to the real and important work Spirit calls us to do: helping other members of our human & animal family and stopping the destruction of the Earth's eco-system.
background information http://testament.org/testament/pguild.html
photo of burned bushes http://testament.org/testament/c38.html
photo of Egyptian pendant http://testament.org/testament/c27.html
photo of a spirit http://testament.org/testament/c16.html
photo of "aliens" http://testament.org/testament/c19.html
photo of a "bigfoot" http://testament.org/testament/c50.html
(TRANSCRIBER'S NOTE: AS MR. KABC SUGGESTED, I LISTENED TO THE SHOW THE FOLLOWING NIGHT AND HERE IS A PORTION FROM THE FINAL HOUR WHEN TODD WILBUR WAS A CALL-IN GUEST FROM LAS VEGAS. I RECORDED THIS BROADCAST ON THE SLOWER SPEED, MAKING SPIRIT MESSAGES/EVP MORE DIFFICULT TO DISTINGUISH.)
M: . . . Well how often ("DO") do you find that someone just, you know some rookie out there does better sleuthing than you? Are you being topped all the time or
T: I don't think so. ("THERE") You know what happens is out there, now that we've got the Internet and everything, you see these clone recipes these same clone recipes that have been floating around for the longest time that really are just horrible. Like the KFC the big popular one before I wrote the book with the KFC secret in there was just using an envelope of good seasoning. Italian salad dressing.
M: Right.
T: You know? Combined with flour and then a KFC coating?
M: Right.
T: No way. It just doesn't work. It might be a good chicken coating but and that recipe's still floating around out there on the Internet and people think they have the real thing. There are a few little sites out there that have some of these recipes but none of them actually test the recipes. They don't put them to the test in the kitchen. They don't ("NO") make them at home. They're not original recipes. They
M: Well let's talk about this. Since you brought it up, what are the Colonel's eleven herbs and spices?
T: Oh this is so great. You know, their I I'm fortunate that I found this book a while back when I first was making this recipe by William Poundstone called Big Secrets.
M: Right.
T: I don't know if you've heard of it but . . .
M: Yeah, I have a copy of it. Yeah.
T: Yeah. (or "YEAH") Awesome book. He did a few more after that. He actually had a sampling of that KFC coating sent to the laboratory.
M: Love that.
T: Yeah, ("THEY") they found not eleven herbs and spices. Maybe you know, I'm not saying there not in there but a lot of the stuff may be in such a small proportion it didn't show up in this sampling that he had. But the main things he found in there really only four ingredients and I based my recipe on this. Flour, obviously. You've got your salt and your pepper. And then good old MSG. That's the secret. MSG.
M: Wow. There's no paprika? There's no
T: There is paprika. There's a little paprika but it's so minuscule that it doesn't really effect the taste like that MSG. MSG in their gravy. It's in so many things. It's used in all The, you know, Outback they use it in a lot of their products. All the restaurant chains use it. ("WE") I don't think we realize how much MSG is out there and it has a very distinguishable taste. It's easy to detect. It's a great taste. I'm not sure it's even as harmless as some people think it is but it's all over.
M: Well it's supposed to what does it like it raises your tastebuds. Isn't that how MSG works? Is it
T: Well it's a natural amino acid found in lots of fruits and vegetables. It's actually natural. And some people complain that they get headaches from it when they eat Chinese food but if they only knew how many products really have this stuff in it.
M: It's from soy, isn't it? Isn't that the basis for MSG? Is there there's a soy base to it?
T: You know how there are it comes in so many forms now. If you it doesn't have to say monosodium glutamate on the package for there to be MSG in there.
M: Really?
T: It comes in if I only knew . I think I'm going to write a little column on it for the website actually. It comes in it's something like twenty-five different forms or more and it's in just it's in all kinds of stuff.
M: Yeah, because everyone when they have Chinese food, they think they get the Chinese food headache but if in reality they had an allergy to MSG they'd be finding it in a lot of other foods.
T: Yeah. They really would. And a lot of things that I think would surprise them. . . .
M: . . . Hi. Welcome to KABC. Say hi to Todd Wilbur.
C: Hey, Todd, how are you doing?
T: Hi.
C: Hey, two quick questions. Accent is that pure MSG?
T: Sure it is. Yeah, that's MSG right there.
C: So that's a good thing to know. Also well what about the Oreo . . .
M: They sell that as the flavor enhancer, right? Isn't that
T: Yeah. They call it the flavor enhancer but basically it's pure MSG.
M: Wow. . . .
Subject: Wednesday / Todd Wilbur / MSG
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 14:37:40 -0700
From: Mark Russell Bell <markrussellbell@earthlink.net>
Organization: http://testament.org
To: mrkabc@primenet.com
Mr. KABC,
I listened to the Todd Wilbur interview and couldn't help thinking that sometimes "feel good" topics can actually have destructive consequences. It was disturbing yet not surprising to learn that Kentucky Fried Chicken contains MSG. It is important listeners be
advised that MSG intolerance has been found not to be an allergic reaction but a powerful drug reaction that destroys brain cells. This information is available at websites such as http://nomsg.com where people can learn that "MSG 'tricks' your brain into thinking the food you are eating tastes good. Manufacturers can use inferior ingredients and thus make the product seem tastier. Inferior products and higher profits prevail at the expense of consumer health."
I hope you will remind listeners about http://testament.org and I am available to describe and discuss my experiences. If you would like to schedule something, my number is (gives number).
Mark Russell Bell
Subject: Transcript of My Recent Call
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 10:12:37 -0700
From: Mark Russell Bell <markrussellbell@earthlink.net>
Organization: http://testament.org
To: mrkabc@primenet.com
Mr. KABC,
Here is a transcript of my call to your show last month.
Mark Russell Bell
Subject: Re: Transcript of My Recent Call
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 10:57:44 -0400
From: "Mr. KABC" <mrkabc@primenet.com>
To: <markrussellbell@earthlink.net>
References: 1
Why would you transcribe our conversations? There must be better uses for your time.
Thanks for finding Mr. KABC
Weeknights from 7:00 - 10:00 PST
TalkRadio 790 KABC www.mrkabc.com
Subject: Re: Transcript of My Recent Call
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 12:16:50 -0700
From: Mark Russell Bell <markrussellbell@earthlink.net>
Organization: http://testament.org
To: "Mr. KABC" <mrkabc@primenet.com>
References: 1 , 2
Mr. KABC,
There is a section in the NT portion of the http://testament.org website featuring transcripts of all my radio interviews and calls to various radio shows (unless prevented by a tape recorder problem). The section is in need of updating yet weekly it is probably the single most popular section of the website.
Mark
Q: So what happened was, as I was listening on the Internet it's a delayed feed because sometimes it ("GO") has intermittent breaks in it. ("SO IT") You lose time and, anyway, I heard a spirit message. I heard what sounded like "NOW." ("SO") I called in. I had my other tape recorder connected to the receiver and, anyway, that tape reveals what happened. . . .
S: "Coast to Coast A.M." Did you have a question for Jim Berkland?
Q: Uh yes, I did.
S: Okay, what's your first name?
Q: Mark.
S: And where are you calling from?
Q: Canoga Park.
S: Can you spell that?
Q: (spells)
S: And where is that?
Q: That's in L.A. L.A. County.
S: Okay. You're on the West of the Rockies line. Hang on.
B: . . . Jim, let's get a couple callers in. We've got Michael is calling us from Cleveland. Hello, Michael. Thanks for calling this evening. . . . Let's get another call in. We've got Mark is calling us from Canoga Park, California, which is down in Southern California. Hello, Mark.
Q: Hi, Barbara, once again and hi, Jim.
J: Hi.
Q: I wanted to ask you something about your previous interview but, first, there was a book that I once read by Increase Mather called Remarkable Providences. It was dated 1684 around that time.
B: Um-huh.
Q: And, basically, he was linking all kinds of preternatural occurrences with weather phenomena and earthquakes. You should take a look at that if you can find it. ("HH" "LATER") . . . Very old book.
J: How about that? Well I have an 1862 book by a Frenchman named Elisee Reclus and he came up with six concepts that I thought were products of the last century, the 1900s. He was at least fifty years ahead of his time in saying that the continents and the oceans change their places around the Earth just is billions of years old. The debris found upon the continents were not a product of Noah's flood but some early ice age that there were a couple other things too that he was incredibly correct on. But he was persona non grata in France and they burned his book.
B: Well, you know, I think that's typical of what happens with anyone who comes up with something new that there is such jealousy, particularly in science. I mean they talk about people in show business being jealous. I think people in science are even more so. ("I DON'T KNOW") I don't know why but I think it is. Let's take another call. We have Dean calling us from Grapevine, Texas. Hello, Dean. . . .
Q: Who cares? I'm so frustrated. I guess I should've focused in on more what I really wanted to say, which had to deal with the EVP. I was going to ask him if maybe he had heard any EVP in his last interview if he had played the tape again; and then mention last night's show. So I just feel terrible now. I thought this was a big chance to really reach a lot of people and have them even go to the archives so they could hear it for themselves. Maybe I'll try calling tomorrow night again. I just feel like I let God down. I guess Barbara doesn't think that the quality of her life in eternity is at stake. I don't know what anyone else thinks. I only know what I think and I'm not thinking very happy thoughts right now. . . .
S: (sounds like) Zeno?
Q: Hello?
S: Hey there. This is "Coast to Coast A.M." Did you have a question for Ian Punnett?
Q: Yes, I wanted to ask him about EVP. Whitley
S: Okay. What's your first name?
Q: Mark.
S: Okay. Where are you calling from, Mark?
Q: San Fernando Valley here in California.
S: Okay, Mark, you're on the wild card line. Hang on. (broadcast begins to be heard on receiver)
M: I just can't take it. I've had too many phone calls from too many too many different organizations and, frankly, I'm frightened and I'm sorry I wasted your time, his time. I'm sorry I disappointed your fans.
I: Well you haven't disappointed anybody that I know of, Michael, and whatever it is that's weighing heavy on your heart, there is always help and you can't get anywhere by giving up so don't go anywhere yet. Let me we'll put him on hold to make sure that there isn't some way we can clear up any sort of miscommunication that has gone on because I hate to have somebody sounding that despondent over a show that should be this much fun; and in an hour where we can never tell what's going to happen. We'll find out where we'll go east of the Rockies coming up as we continue with open phones on "Coast to Coast A.M." My name's Ian Punnett. . . . (commercials and bumper music)
I: I'm a little worried about Zeno but we checked with him off the air and everything's going to be fine. And we go back to the phones for the rest of this hour before our guest Dr. Len Horowitz and his concerns about not only the West Nile Virus but other invisible threats in the air that he believes are coming with less than an unintentional nature toward us. We'll talk about it coming up next hour but first Rick in Lexington, Kentucky east of the Rockies on "Coast to Coast A.M." . . . Mark in the San Fernando Valley on the (BEEP) wild card line on "Coast to Coast A.M." Mark?
Q: Hello, Ian.
I: Welcome to open phones.
Q: I had a comment on EVP/Electronic Voice Phenomena or spirit messages. I'd like to find out if you have any experience with that. I know Whitley Strieber has played one from his broadcast: "CAN YOU HEAR ME"; and I heard an author named Beverly Donofrio who wrote Looking For Mary play a spirit message "THE BIRDS ARE UP" when she was being interviewed recently. But this is in relation to Friday night's show. Did you hear that, by any chance?
I: I'm afraid I didn't. (X)
Q: Dr. Seth Shostak was on of SETI organization. ("AN[D]") Anyone unfamiliar with EVP or spirit messages, ("SHOULD") listen to the archived edition of that interview. Of course, this phenomenon can commonly be heard during broadcasts. I found that you can hear it in all recorded mediums and on different broadcasts yet I found the EVP very audible during the last two hours of the show during the question and answer period. I heard messages such as "YES," "NO," "RIGHT." He was making a lot of statements. ("AN[D]") It seemed like a good opportunity for Spirit to make some comments. ("SO") Inserted within his statements, there were these (X) spirit messages.
I: Well I appreciate that 'heads up.' I didn't hear that program but you'll be glad to know that we are working on a show in the weeks ahead that we hope to get on featuring a reporter who is been working on a story in the Louisiana area of a woman that continues to get messages on her call screener from famous former celebrities. That is to say dead celebrities. And some of these are politicians. Some of these are other notables and it's at a part of the house where other people in her family have long since been willing to go. And that's where she has her answering machine with the call screening service on it. And they come in with names and numbers. And it's being checked out. And it's if it's everything that this reporter believes that it could be, it's truly an extraordinary kind of event, which is (or "WHICH IS" or "WITCHES") kind of up the ally of what you're speaking in. I hope to have that in the weeks ahead. Maybe we can tie-in those two things together. Richard in Antioch, California, West of the Rockies on "Coast to Coast A.M." open phones. . . . On the wild card line, our last comment from Allen in Ogden, Utah on "Coast to Coast A.M." Allen?
A: First , I thought I'd very quickly, I have a question and I believe you have a very balanced, positive show. I love to listen . . .
I: Good. I appreciate that.
A: Okay, I had a comment for the EVP lady who called about that. I was on a ghost investigation of a ghost investigators society here in Utah. We did a live investigation for Fox Television locally a week ago on Labor Day morning. And I got EVP in an old museum which was a army barracks in 1870 of a heartbeat faded in and then rises for several seconds and fading out. But I just want to make people aware Electronic Voice Phenomena do not . . . come in words. It can be symbolic and I interpreted this as a symbolic message of saying "I'm still alive even though I (don't) have the body."
I: Yeah. (or "YEAH") That's very interesting. I'd love to hear that tape too. And if you ever get anything like that, Allen, make sure you include us in your mailing list. We'll be happy to have you on to talk about it. Especially during an open phone segment like that one ("WHICH" or "WITCH") we just had. And it was great to do it too. We'll open up the phones again coming up a little bit later on in the show but we want to get down to cases on this West Nile Virus. It remains very much in the news and the minds of people all over the East Coast but who's behind it all. We'll find out more on our way next on "Coast to Coast A.M."
Q: Well he got me off the air pretty quick. . . . I'm a little bit perturbed at Ian. I guess I should copy him on Barbara's transcribed message because I was just about to say that more information about EVP/spirit messages is available at the website testament.org and he didn't give me the chance. I mean who would've thought that he would've disconnected me so quickly unless the producer is behind it. Anyway, ("YEAH") I don't feel sorry for myself. I just feel sorry for God and what's left of the world.
R: (rebroadcast begins) You're listening to "Coast to Coast A.M." with the prince of darkness, Ian Punnett, on the Premiere Radio Networks.
I: Prince of darkness? (laughs) ("YES") That's going to go over big at the seminary. (laughs) That's the first time I've heard that ever. I mean okay, sinister minister maybe but prince of darkness, please. (laughs) Well I'll try to keep that in mind as I'm sitting here doing my homework for this week's Hebrew class. It is a perfect night to just spend an hour on open phones and we will before we are joined by our guest for this show . . .
Q: . . . I've felt a need to concentrate on this show as being the perfect outlet for me obviously. The corporate mentality is something very difficult to deal with. Specific individuals are told certain instructions, apparently. That's just the feeling I get. From my perspective, you can go to the website and it does have listings of the previous shows and the guests. And there's an obvious majority of guests that came on the show with books to sell with links to the amazon.com books so, of course, the producers can get their kickback. Obviously, this tends to favor guests who have books to sell so the company can make some money. And, of course, for a book to be published in this society, they're aimed at an audience that might not be as educated about spirituality as possibly some of the hosts and listeners of "Coast to Coast A.M." Now I know Ian has a lot of experience and education in spirituality or divinity and yet his response is the same as the others. But if you look at these guests and the majority of them with their books, they obviously to get published had to attract a publisher in most cases who could feel that they could sell this to the public. So what happens is that, let's say, a host from his knowledge can see certain parallels and certain significances in a book that matches other religious traditions. And yet he does not have the authority to have the author of the book on the show. The "corporation" wants to make money. The individuals in their high-paying, privileged positions feel that in order to justify their salariesand then by exploiting othersthey have to make money for the evil principality: the corporation. Therefore, there is an emphasis on these commercialized guests. So this is what has happened to me. You have varying degrees of this dilemma in the media. And I've had well you know. I've kept a documentary record of my difficulty in finding messengers in their positions of power to help my deliver my Message. I would also have liked to point out to Ian during my conversation with him about Beverly Donofrio that she, of course, didn't realize that that EVP "THE BIRDS ARE UP" was a spirit message and she had attributed it to picking up a hoaxer's walkie-talkie even though that's so unlikely, considering that if you're going to conduct a hoax you would do it with something other than birds because birds are very unreliable and is that really something that would be conclusive? No. . . . Last time (for the "Dreamland" rebroadcast) they did edit out my website address and this time I didn't even have a chance to give the website address but people who see my message on the bulletin board can certainly get the address there. . . .
(TRANSCRIBER'S NOTE: THE FOLLOWING FRIDAY EVENING, I TURNED ON THE PROGRAM TO HEAR TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES. WHITLEY STRIEBER WAS AN UNANNOUNCED GUEST AND COULD BE HEARD ASKING "CAN YOU HEAR ME" WITHOUT ANY RESPONSE FROM HOST MIKE SIEGEL.)
Q: (preceding journal entry) . . . Every job is a miracle. For all of those people who think that they are the sole person responsible for their success and wealth; and can't find any justification for sharing their money, they should consider what life would be like without their job.
( . . . )
S: "Coast to Coast A.M." Did you have a question for Barbara Simpson?
Q: Yes, I did.
S: First name, please.
Q: Mark.
S: And where are you calling from tonight?
Q: From Los Angeles.
S: Okay. You're on the wild card line. Make sure your radio is turned off and hang on.
Q: Thank you.
B: (broadcast begins to be heard over receiver) . . . we tend always in news to kind of focus on California because, after all, that's the most important state of all and if you are living (caller laughs) if you're living in New York and I was back in New York a couple of years ago and I would watch the news. And I knew that in California they were having terrible floods and ("I") I was very concerned because I have friends and family out here. And the news in New York gave it about ten seconds worth of coverage. They just ignored it. So I think it's because we don't get a lot of news coverage of what happens to folks in Oklahoma, you know? So we don't really know what goes on there and you're right. ("IF IT") And, by the way, it's a beautiful state too so Patty thank you very much for calling I appreciate it and I hope you'll stay with us when we're talking with Dr. Sheldrake later about the animals. I can hear the music and that means we're at the bottom of the hour right here on "Coast to Coast A.M." We're not going anywhere. We'll take a pause, have a couple of messages and then we'll be back. I'm Barbara Simpson. This is "Coast to Coat A.M."
( . . . )
B: Here I am and we're talking I mentioned later on we're going to be talking about psychic animals. I found this story. I guess it was about a couple of weeks ago on the wires and it just is so silly. I don't know if you're all aware of the fact that Sylvester Stallone's mother is named Jacqueline Stallone and she's kind of an interesting lady. Very flamboyant in dress and what she does. And she's sort of a well she's kind of a psychic, I guess. At least, she claims to be. She does well how shall I say it? She practices (laughs) I'm being serious she practices the art of rumpology, which we're told is similar to palmistry but it uses the imprint of a person's derriere instead. Well she has two dogs and she claims the two dogs are psychic. They grown or they're happy and what they do is they well I guess they use telecommunication. They have mental powers that enable them to look into the future and predict everything from politics to the future for Jacqueline Stallone. And they give her the message in her mind and then she's able to express them because they don't speak. That's the silly part of it. The real part is what we're going to be talking about later. Mark is calling us from L.A. Hello, Mark. Thank you for calling. I'm Barbara.
Q: Hi, Bar (BEEP)
B: Mark?
Q: Hi. (or "HI") Hi, Barbara.
B: Hi.
Q: Well my life has brought me smack dab in the middle of a couple more cover-ups.
B: Uh-huh.
Q: But first I thought I would mention about last night's show with Echo Bodine. Did you hear that?
B: I heard part of it. Not the whole thing.
Q: Me too. ("BUT") People should go to the archive shows because the spirit messages/EVP phenomena is getting quite noticeable. ("UM") Especially with her. In the middle of her sentences, you can hear very distinct words such as "NO," um "BUT," "AND." I heard some "YOU KNOW"s.
B: Really?
Q: Mostly "NO"s. Like there was one time when she was talking about 'The Squadron' about how people ("SH") should call upon 'The Squadron' and there was a very distinct "NO" there. But, anyway, that's something that people can do on their own.
B: Okay.
Q: But, anyway, I had to quit my job because of a cover-up.
B: Um-huh.
Q: Another government cover-up. I was working for TeleTech which services clients like the United States post office. And it was sort of a long-term temp position. And I had to quit because my supervisor said I wasn't allowed to give people the correct rates information when they called ("HE") told me that I had I couldn't give Special Standard Mail rates unless they specifically used that terminology and very few callers knew that terminology. So this is a new government cover-up to report. I guess they're now hiring temp workers through intermediary companies to get around screwing the public. ("AND" "YOU KNOW") Because, of course, they're supposed to service the public but they're trying to make as much money as they can and try it yourself. ("TRY") Call up and say "I want to send some books. ("WHAT'S") What's the cheapest rate?" And instead of Special Standard Mail rate, ("THEY") they'll probably just tell you the Parcel Post rate.
B: Well I'll tell you, Mark, the problem I think dealing with almost any business is if you don't ask the right question, you're not going to get the answers you're looking for. And frequently you're dealing with people who really don't know their job and that's always a problem. Did you get another job yet?
Q: Well I'm starting on Monday. I of course, after you quit a temp job they won't use you again. So I signed up a new temp agency and I was horrified because there were like twenty different forms I had to fill out. One of them
B: Welcome to the bureaucracy.
Q: Well it's worse than you think because one of the things I had to sign it said 'Do you promise not to divulge any information whatsoever on your job?' and, of course, being a writer, that's something I wasn't willing to sign so I scratched it out. And there was so much paperwork, they didn't even notice that I refused to go along with them on that one. I was also I think the people who ("EN") en uh engage in these cover-ups, though such as this one with the USPS, because when people call and say, "I want the least expensive rate," you should be able to give them the least expensive rate but they have other cover-ups that get them karmically. For example, here in L.A. there's a show called "Ask Mr. KABC" and he was interviewing Todd Wilbur who's that cookbook author who writes about food chains and recipes. And he had apparently interviewed a chemist who had checked out Kentucky Fried Chicken. And apparently
B: Mark, Mark, you're getting really, really long on this and it's very convoluted.
Q: Well don't hang up on me because I'll make the point now.
B: Yeah. What's your point? ("WELL")
Q: The secret recipe for Kentucky Fried Chicken is MSG which is a powerful drug. ("HOW")
B: How do you know it if it's a secret recipe?
Q: Because Todd Wilbur, who's a very ("WHO'S A") nationwide-known cookbook author
B: Ahhh.
Q: he's known for he's published many different books. And he had it analyzed. Of course, he himself was just talking about it as an allergic reaction. He doesn't know what I know, being a vegan. ("THAT IT") It's a powerful drug reaction and not an allergic reaction. And it destroys brain cells. And there are websites such as nomsg.com in addition to my own (at) testament.org that does go into some of these terrible things. Of course, the show itself has had a lot about
B: Yeah.
Q: Bovine Growth Hormone. ("BUT")
B: Well we've done a lot on this program. I know Mike has done a number of programs on that. Listen, I we've got to take a break but I think you, Mark, for calling and I hope (line disconnected)
(TRANSCRIBER'S NOTE: I LISTENED TO THE REBROADCAST OF THE PROGRAM AND THIS IS HOW MY FINAL TWO SENTENCES WERE HEARD: "AND THERE ARE WEBSITES SUCH AS NO (D)OT ORG THAT DOES GO INTO SOME OF THESE TERRIBLE THINGS.)
B: (heard on rebroadcast) you will stay listening. And we'll be right back. I'm Barbara Simpson.
Q: (commenting during rebroadcast) Well they've edited me again. They've made me sound totally unintelligible. They've damaged my reputation once again without any freedom of speech. They cut out both of the website addresses I gave: http://nomsg.com and as well as my own.
( . . . )
Q: It's always hard for me to listen to myself. And I wish I hadn't said that about EVP becoming very noticeable because I believe these spirit messages/EVP have always been very noticeable. It's just once you're aware of it, it's easier to hear. And, as you get experience hearing it, it's easier.
( . . . )
Q: Well I wasn't planning to but I guess I should clarify my sentiments about hell because I think that's what is on the minds of the hosts at "Coast to Coast A.M." I believe that hell is a metaphor, as is heaven. Earth certainly our society is a heaven for those who enjoy their lives. It can be a hell for even rich people who don't know what they're doing or don't want to know what they're doing. And, of course, those 25,000 people who starve to death every death every day, life is certainly a hell for them. But I think people who are doing worthwhile work and have all their essential needs met Earth is certainly a heaven for them. And where we go after here, if God so blesses us, is continuing our journey and, of course, I think He wants (this) unless that wasn't in our best self-interest. With an expanded consciousness, we would have to live with the knowledge of the good or the evil or I should say both the good and the evil that we've done and this comprehension would enable us to live in 'heaven' or 'hell' based on our knowledge of our actions and the consequences.
( . . . )
Q: I'm thinking now how people like this author have to find different synonyms and scientific terms other than "God" to conform with society and commercialize themselves create profits. They can't deal with God because of the hostility and antagonism that arouses. They have to find all these other obscure words and phrases to say the same thing, basically. God has feelings too. Barbara talks about her pets, which is something easy to talk about and that horrible moment when her two dogs collided. Well I have the same feeling about mankind.
B: Barbara Simpson here with you on "Coast to Coast A.M." You know, the last couple of weeks, we talked a fair amount about the U.S. Navy. What with 'Fleet Week' here and my adventures on the USS Constellation. Then, of course, the explosion on the USS Cole. And then the plane that went down, which was off of the Constellation and during one of their exercises down off of San Diego with the loss of a pilot. And I see on the wires today that just east of Fallon, Nevada, two navy pilots were taking part in training exercises over the desert when their FA-18 Hornets collided. (You've) got to wonder how that can happen. But they did. One of them managed to land safely at the station even though the collision sheared off three feet off of the right wing and damaged the fuselage, the vertical stabilizers and the horizontal flap. It's a miracle this guy got the plane down okay. The other man, Lt. Cam Hanson, was ejected and the plane crashed and he survived okay. ("SO IT") Those FA-18s have had quite a few accidents. I know they're doing an investigation. They're still not certain whether or not they're going to ground them all but the plane that went down off the Constellation last week was also an FA-18. They've had a couple of other accidents with them so maybe (they) better do some heads up on that and find out what's going on. Let's go first to a caller from Los Angeles. Hello, Mark, how are you? You're on "Coast to Coast A.M." with Barbara Simpson. ("HI") Good evening . . . (BEEP)
Q: Hi, Barbara.
B: Hello, Mark.
Q: Hi. I just wanted to share a thought that I had. I was reading a book by Richard Wurmbrand, ("WHO IS") a well-known evangelical minister who was imprisoned for many years in Rumania between 1948 and 1964. And it just made me realize that our capitalistic system is very much like the communistic system after all.
B: In what way?
Q: Well, as he describes in his book because he had to ("GO") undergo imprisonment and torture for his beliefs ("BUT") everything in these countries, he wrote radio, television, cinema, theatre, press, publishing houses they all had the aim of stamping out a belief in God. And now, of course, in our society even those authors who profess a belief in God share a distorted view of God.
B: Do you see the media today trying to stamp out a belief in God in this country?
Q: Yes, I do.
B: In what way? ("WELL")
Q: Look at the content of everything. When they do deal with God, it's in a very superficial way.
B: True.
Q: It's I, myself, don't even watch television. I can find information ("ON THE") on the Internet that I don't think is manipulated the way you find it in so many different outlets. And, of course, you also have the need to sell things so, of course, anything that goes against anything that the advertisers might not like gets left out of print as well. So
B: I would raise the question I would agree with you. I think that there is a concerted effort to eliminate anything religious from most there's a couple "Touched By An Angel" I think is one that has religious overtones to it. There may be a couple of other programs but for the most part I think you're right. I would not, however, come to the conclusion that our government a capitalistic system is just like socialism. I think what you're looking at, rather, Mark, is that the capitalistic system is transitioning to socialism . . .
Q: Well I didn't mean socialism. I said communism, not socialism.
B: Alright, communism well but, you know, I mean Ballin Vosiny (phonetic) who is a historian, a man who lived under the Nazis and under communists calls it socialism, regardless of what kind of socialism it is. But I think that because of the leaders that we have had and the trend in a lot of what the laws and the interpretation, our involvement internationally, etc., I think there are a lot of people in our government who are moving us toward socialism whether we want to or not.
Q: Well I think our leaders are a lot like their leaders.
B: Some of them are.
Q: I think that they're just people who are putting on an act. I mean they're so manipulated by the
B: . . . they're not an act.
Q: rich and wealthy.
B: It's not an act.
Q: And the power structure.
B: No, I would disagree with you. They are, in fact, the power structure.
Q: And there's even an underground church today like there was back then.
B: Well that has nothing to do with the government. The underground church today is because maybe some people don't agree with the way their churches are going. But I would say that the answer to that is let's look at the kind of people we elect to office because fortunately in this country we do have a constitution which outlines in very simple fashion what our rights are ("R") unalienable right not the permission from the government to have free speech but our right as human beings to have free speech. And I think that perhaps we might look at the kinds of people we're electing to office and what they intend to do with us. ("THAT") That's really the issue. And, actually, you bring up a really good important point, considering that we are less than two weeks away from an election where we are going to be facing major, major choices for President as well as for various seats in congress, for a number of governors of states as well as the various selections that are going on in your own district. It's very, very important to pay attention. A lot of people are saying, "Ahh my vote doesn't count." Yes, it does.
Q: And look how the power structure left out Ralph Nader from the process. They shut him out handily this time.
B: I think it's outrageous. I think in my opinion personally I think that all of the major candidates should've been in a debate at least once. The Libertarians. The Greens. You name it. The Constitution Party. All of those parties. Why not? What's wrong with it? ("IF") If you are a Democrat, if you are a Republican and you feel that your candidate is terrific and he's the one that you've got running for the office, why not put him up against some of the other people who are running against him? At the very least, the people in this country would be able to see that there are some different ideas out there. Thank you very much, Mark. I appreciate it. ("I") Good food for thought there. I just found that the debates ("WELL") well, you know, we could go on a lot about the debates but I think the fact that the other people running did not have the opportunity to have their voices heard of course, we'll never have a powerful third party unless somebody pays attention to them. The only reason Ross Perot got so much attention when he ran was because Ross is Ross and he manages to get the headlines. And he, you know, he used Larry King and Larry King used him and a lot of attention that way. ("BUT") You know, look at the other ones. Do you see them very often? No. Were they in the debates? No. It's outrageous. Cheryl in Vancouver hi, Cheryl. Thanks for calling "Coast to Coast" this evening/this morning. . . .
W: . . . Jim Marrs about the election and the New World Order and the erosion of our freedom, which is one of the central issues of this age. As long as the secret government keeps growing and growing and growing and I don't mean just the intelligence community but all of the secret organizations and secret societies that surround the government like a crowd of remoras around a shark. As long as this keeps growing, our freedom gets less and less and less every day. We've got to get out of the habit of secrecy. Everybody wants to keep secrets from us from 'we the people.' We have just come off of an election that has been an absolute disaster. A mess. It's ironic, isn't it?, that the Tilden/Hayes election of 1876 swung on Florida votes and there were great allegations of fraud in those back in those days, over a hundred years ago. And in the end the person who won, Hayes, won as a result of the electoral games being played in the electoral college. And it was one of the weakest presidencies that we've ever had. Right now we're going into a situation where the country looks like it's getting into some economic rough waters and we're going to end up, because of what happened, with a very weak presidency just when that's the last thing we need. Well, you know, when Harry Truman came to office after the death of FDR, everybody thought we've got a real weakling in the presidency and he rose to the office because the greatness of this great country inspired him. Maybe that will happen again, whichever of the two candidates gets in to power. Let's hope. Okay, the phones are packed. I'm not going to spend much time talking to you guys in this little break; instead, I'm going to go right back to Jim Marrs and to your calls in just a couple minutes. This is Whitley Strieber, it's "Dreamland," and we'll be back.
( . . . )
W: This is Whitley Strieber, it's "Dreamland," and we're going to go straight to the phones with Jim Marrs. I am not going to be able to answer Email questions tonight because we have got pushing toward 300 Emails just during the course of the show. We normally get about 3,000 a month and we try, as you know, to answer them all. At least, to say hello back so that you don't drop your Email into a black hole. But tonight we're just going to stay with the phone. Those of you who have written, asking why you can't see stories I've talked about on http://whitleysworld.com you go to whitleysworld and, for example, someone wrote, saying "I can't see the Flight 800 story. Where is it?" Well what you need to do is to press refresh on your browser because you will see it. It's right in it's one, two, three, four, five news items from the top. The headline is "New TWA Flight 800 Theory" and it is an incredible story written by none other than Anne Strieber and based on some extraordinary research, which it is linked to. Okay, Jim?
J: Yeah.
W: Yeah. We're loaded with calls so let's go to Mark in I guess in California. (BEEP) Hi, Mark.
Q: Hi, Whitley and hi, Jim.
J: Hi, Mark.
Q: Of course, Jim is known for his some of his conspiracy theories so I thought I would try one out on him. But what if all of the presidential elections are put-ons? Of course, we had the Monica Lewinsky and the Elian Gonzalez diversions. Perhaps, this whole election controversy now is a diversion to hide the fact that nobody really wants Mr. Bush. And none of the states that supposedly elected him really did elect him. Does Jim think that would be very possible?
W: In other words, this is you're saying it's sort of a coup? Mark?
Q: Well I don't know what words to place with it but how do we really know what the votes were? ("BECAUSE") There's always someone who's doing the counting and how do we really know each of those state totals are accurate? I mean if Mr. Bush is going to be elected, it's on the basis of doing away with Social Security and how many ("OF") people who are just trying to make their weekly ends meet think that's a good idea right now?
J: Well to answer your question let me just point out that as Whitley mentioned as he came back from the break, talking about the back in the 1800s with the election that ended up in Florida. Okay? And Florida traditionally (SPIRIT SMALL LAUGH) and notoriously has been a state filled with voting corruption. Okay? And is it just pure coincidence that one of the Bush boys went to Florida to become governor? You think that's just you know (or "YOU KNOW"), they all came from Connecticut. That's where Prescott was. They were all big Eastern establishment types and then George Herbert Walker goes to Texas and sets himself up as a Texas oil man and then Jeb goes to Florida and is it sheer coincidence that these (telephone line disconnected here)
Q: Well if I had a chance to speak further, I would've pointed out the fact that if the polls were proven to be accurate, what happened to the Green Party's votes? Why is the media all saying different variations of the same thing and making the Green Party candidate Ralph Nader the bad guy in all of this? I'm talking about magazines, newspapers and television I do catch a little bit of it because my mom watches TV morning, noon and night. And you hear very much the same thing. If you own the press and the media, then you can do just about anything to pull the wool over the eyes of the American people. So it goes back to that whole question of 'power,' the media, and peoplewho do the bidding of the wealthy and the elite who pull the strings of even the Presidentthink that they're helping themselves financially by catering to this 'power.' And they forget that their first responsibility is to themselves and to what's right and what's good; and to God. So here we have people who would say anything or do anything to enrich themselves and the process is pretty much depicted as what you see in the newspapers and on the media where the system is abused through manipulation. Any claim can be heard to further the agenda catering to the wealthy. On my website, I always call attention to that Fall 1998 Rand Review ("WHERE IT") that said "the information revolution transforms the nature of conflict according to a 1997 Rand book In Athena's Camp: Preparing For Conflict In The Information Age which predicts the passing of the era of massed field armies and the beginning of an age in which information and knowledge are the key elements of power." And I might say all the misinformation out there about mind control obscures the real truth that the most powerful mind control device imaginable is in almost every living room throughout the United States. Television. I also might have mentioned the fact that the number of people earning salaries is dwindling as the baby boomer generation grows old so there won't be the base for Social Security that there was before. I think that's also why the borders have been so lax. And that's why immigration and immigrants have been rewarded to come here. The wealthy need these people here putting money into the Social Security system in order for it to continue or they must give up some of their wealth. There is no concept of a Christian Socialism which is something that I've tried to help others with by setting an example and encouraging others to do the same. Anyway, who really knows what's going on? It's so devastating how everyone throughout our society caters to these greedy millionaires and billionaires that look upon life as a contest to see who can accrue the most wealth when every wisdom tradition tells you that's the road to hell. And people trying to get ahead in this dog-eat-dog world are quick to help these unfortunate souls and join them in their pursuit. I also wanted to ask Whitley in terms of Mr. Marrs being on the show tonight I slept through most of what he was saying, unfortunately I was listening on the Internet until he said that they don't carry the last hour on the Internet, anymore, so what does that tell you? Another loss of something for some reason. And I wanted to ask him, "Do you and Anne book the showshe's the produceror does the corporation book the show? Odd how you see certain people billed as counter culture figures when they really aren't saying very much against the culture. Mr. Marrs certainly goes to a lot of those conventions but today I didn't really hear anything that made me think of him as having much to say against the power structure. And as we all know since Susan B. Anthony's 1873 trial, judges seem to share this same problem that all the others share in terms of catering to special interests and this government this mythical government. Doing something for 'the government' seeing the government as more than an individual concept, more than just a name on paper; somehow doing something evil for a government is appropriate because you're doing something 'for the government.' Whereas there is no government. When you're doing something evil, you're doing something for the 'powerful elite' the special interests to further your own self-interest. It has nothing to do with 'government.' Take a look at what went on in that trial as I do look in New Testament . . . As Allan L. Benson wrote in his 1914 book Our Dishonest Constitution, "The Constitution of 1787 . . . was made by a small class to further the interests of that class." Benson shows how the government "was founded by the rich for the benefit of the rich." He quotes President Wilson from the book Division and Reunion as saying, "'The Federal government was not by intention a democratic government. In plan and structure it had been meant to check the sweep and power of popular majorities. The Senate, it was believed, would be a stronghold of conservatism, if not of aristocracy and wealth. The President, it was expected, would be the choice of representative men acting in the electoral college, and not of the people. The Federal judiciary was looked to, with its virtually permanent membership, to hold the entire structure of national politics in nice balance against all disturbing influences, whether of popular impulse or official overbearance.'" Benson points out: ". . . because the Constitution is doing much of what it was intended to do that the people are having great difficulty in ruling themselves. . . .'Divide and govern' . . . has ever been the maxim of the small, compact, well organized, intelligent but unscrupulous ruling class. Trump up fake issues! Fill the air with a din! Divide the majority into parties 'and govern!" I guess one could find other ways of saying this, such as the rock group Depeche Mode:
The grabbing hands grab all they can
All for themselves after all
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